SS uniform ID help needed

[John Pic]

Sorry, there's no chance it's Berger.
Look how wide he is, even at the Nuremberg trials after losing a lot of weight.

Look at Berger compared to the two MPs guarding the door. He is not bigger than them, we don’t know how big he was despite his pouchy belly. Not a reliable way to determine .

[mevm36]

Look at Berger compared to the two MPs guarding the door. He is not bigger than them, we don’t know how big he was despite his pouchy belly. Not a reliable way to determine .

Yes I am back and forth on Berger, I have seen some photos of how m much slimmer than the Nuremberg photo. I still think Berger however. Also note that staff officers generally had several tunics with varying configurations.

Marcus

[Ian Hulley]

Hi Ian,

Yes as photos of Berger are difficult to find showing various tunics. I agree that the long ribbon bar is a standout, however having said that, judging from the double row of award loops on this tunic, the lower row would have been for the ribbon bar and the upper row would have been for the medal bar when worn.

A photo of Berger at the handing over of the hospital at Auschwitz ... one of very few shots of him wearing a dark collar tunic.

Capture.JPG

You will note the single row of ribbon bars and the lack of loops above. Also the ribbon bar has a bend in it, something which would imply it is a sew-on bar not the usual rigid type. Edit ... Also the ribbon bar is wider than the pocket flap unlike the subject tunic.

Ian

[panzer1432]

Yes I am back and forth on Berger, I have seen some photos of how m much slimmer than the Nuremberg photo. I still think Berger however. Also note that staff officers generally had several tunics with varying configurations.

Marcus

Yes, of course high ranking officers had several tunics. But the older guys hated the closed collar prussian type tunics. Most wore open collar shirt and tie. It's not Berger. Maybe Wolf. The tunic did not belong to a young man.

How could anyone be that highly decorated ?

[darekm]

Maybe both garments originally belonged to the same man? Find the man who held that rank and position in the pre-war and was later an Obergruppenfuhrer, and you may have your man. The cuff title on the leather coat is very rare, so it might narrow it down.

[mevm36]

A photo of Berger at the handing over of the hospital at Auschwitz ... one of very few shots of him wearing a dark collar tunic.

Capture.JPG

You will note the single row of ribbon bars and the lack of loops above. Also the ribbon bar has a bend in it, something which would imply it is a sew-on bar not the usual rigid type.

Ian

Yes I have seen this photo and indeed that is a sew on bar. Again, officers had several tunics with varying award loop configurations and even tunic styles. Sepp Dietrich is a very good example of this. Again, I cannot prove this is Bergers tunic, and am just pointing out some coincidental features. Also, to my eyes, in this photo, Berger looks much slimmer in that style tunic than in the Nuremberg photo.

Marcus

[Oldrusty26]

Looks like the eagle damage is just above the eagle , other damage on sleeve and interior of tunic is really poor condition as well . If I get someone here to help me , I’ll try to turn the sleeve inside out , but I’m really afraid of damaging it further . The one time I had it out showing it to Charles snyder ( who told me that it was completely legitimate btw ) a bystander tried to pull a collar tab off to look for the rear tag ?? , that guy almost lost his fingers ..

[Oldrusty26]

RZM tag , not rear tag , sorry.

[Felix]

Interesting topic and tunic. I have not taken any interest as the title was a bit boring. Please forgive me for that. Its true that lot of verdicts has been passed. I pass no judgement of those. This is my take on it; I am not keen on the SS generals collar tabs. I am not keen on the bullion sleeve eagle - nor do I like how it has been sewn on. The old fighers chevron is fine and original. Application looks fairly ok. The ageing of the piping of the shoulder straps looks very strange. Not what I would like to see. Fake ageing? Seems like it to me from these pics. If that age colour would be real then the question is about the rest of the wear and if that would matching, right? Sharp rips of a cuff title is another red flag - and with sloppy application?. Its a dolled up tunic with questionable insignias IMHO. Nothing I would want in my collection - unless a hands on inspection confirms otherwise. I am not impressed by the photos presented.... The loops for medals I will not comment on - hence its not my field. Its a side discussion IMHO away from the real issues.

[Oldrusty26]

Yes, of course high ranking officers had several tunics. But the older guys hated the closed collar prussian type tunics. Most wore open collar shirt and tie. It's not Berger. Maybe Wolf. The tunic did not belong to a young man.

How could anyone be that highly decorated ?

I believe Wolff , there was a photo of him posted on this site at one point wearing this style uniform that I am trying to find again , cannot remember the original poster of it , but he had no medals on and it showed the medal pattern , thinking it matched up , but somehow I’ve lost the photo either by accidental deletion or I did not save it . If anyone has or saved that photo it would be helpful .

[BenVK]

And this is why I asked for more photos..
Personally I don't have a problem with hand sewn tabs despite it usually being an instant kiss of death with SS tunics on this forum.
However, these tabs are so poorly sewn plus I think I see empty needle holes..

[Oldrusty26]

I guess I dont see any empty needle holes . thank you for your comments though .

[BenVK]

I could be wrong, I have only your photos to work with.

[John Pic]

And this is why I asked for more photos..
Personally I don't have a problem with hand sewn tabs despite it usually being an instant kiss of death with SS tunics on this forum.
However, these tabs are so poorly sewn plus I think I see empty needle holes from previous tabs so unfortunately, it's not looking so good anymore IMHO.

Actually Ben many SS Officer tunics have hand sewn tabs. Quick and easy. An old school tailor that helped me restore a VT tunic said it was not easy using a machine due to pips which can be removed for sewing . Some machine sewn tabs you will notice that they are sewn along the edge between the piping and the buckram. My Thule SS Technical Mechanics Officer tunic had hand sewn tabs as did my Cavalry Hauptsturmfuhrer, both were my finest untouched originals . I do see an indentation from something but it may be just a smaller stitch as it’s in line with the others .

[John Pic]

I’ll say it again , what kind of clown destroys a Hauptampt cuff band to fake a uniform ?