SS uniform ID help needed

[John Pic]

Hasn´t this set surfaced in NYC long time ago?
For my view you own a very rare original set of tunic and coat

Thanks for weighing in Robert , your opinion is valuable and respected and I agree .

[John Pic]

Sorry about my off coarse post , but sometimes a wrong or unsubstantiated opinion can ruin or destroy a very real and rare item. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion but facts and the item speak for themselves. Plus I never heard of an award loop expert .
I hope this gentleman determines who owned these it is well worth the effort.
Personally I am tired of smart Alec put downs of items with no explanation of what’s wrong citing details. I do not see incorrectly sewn shoulder boards. The loops are not inconsistent with any I have encountered one strand a micro bit longer than another, big deal ?

[mevm36]

By the way I can sew those braided loops. We had a “ how to “ thread in the Heer forum some years back. Braided doesn’t necessarily make them war time. Do you have photos of Jodl wearing that tunic ?

Hi John,

Here are some pictures of the provenance of the Yodl tunic, as well as the inside tag of the tunic, all from his wife who owned the tunic after his death...Also I agree 100% with your assessment of this tunic, the loops are not inconsistent with other loops on high ranking tunics. I am not an expert in loops, however like you, I see nothing that would indicate this tunic has been fabricated.

Cheers

Marcus

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[merdock]

Hi,
I don't visit much theses days and this is the first thread iv'e followed in a long time I like the tunic but who am I to comment, what I don't like is the reason I rarely visit the slagging off and nasty comments brigade that spoilt the forum over the years.
Mark

[mevm36]

I believe based on the medal configuration, that this tunic may have belonged to Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob Berger. This is based on the lower loops on the left breast pocket which would indicate a star award of some kind. Here is a list of Bergers awards from which you can see he was awarded various axis awards which would be authorized for wear.

• Iron Cross Second Class and Sturmmedaille Ypern – 26 November 1914
• Württemberg Military Merit Medal in Gold – 21 May 1915
• Knight's Cross of the Württemberg Military Order of Merit – 5 April 1918
• Wound Badge in Silver – 18 June 1918
• Iron Cross First Class and Knight's Cross First Class of the Friedrich Order with Swords – 11 August 1918
• Honour Cross with Swords
• SA Sports Badge in Gold – 15 December 1934
• Sword of Honour of the Reichsführer-SS and SS Honour Ring – 1936
• German Olympic Decoration First Class – 16 August 1936
• Sudetenland Medal with "Prague Castle" Bar
• Memel Medal
• Nazi Party Long Service Award in Silver and Bronze
• Social Welfare Decoration Second Class
• War Merit Cross Second Class with Swords – 11 January 1939
• War Merit Cross First Class with Swords – 1 July 1940
• Order of the Cross of Liberty First Class with Swords (Finland) – 10 September 1941
• Military Virtue Medal (Romania) – 5 June 1942
• First Class Commander of the Order of the White Rose of Finland with Jewels and Swords – 26 August 1942
• Grand Cross of the Order of the Holy Crown of Hungary with Swords and War Decoration – 1 October 1942
• Golden Party Badge – 30 January 1943
• German Cross in Silver – 1 July 1943
• Grand Cross of the Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir with Swords and Star (giving the title of vitez (knight) – 7 December 1943)
• Hitler Youth Badge in Gold – 30 January 1944
• 1939 Clasp to the Iron Cross, 15 September 1944
• 1939 clasp to the Iron Cross First Class – 18 September 1944
• Slovak War Victory Cross First Class – 20 September 1944
• Knight's Cross of the War Merit Cross with Swords – 26 September 1944

Again this is just an educated guess based on the medal configuration however Berger was the Chief of the SS-Hauptamt (SS Main office) from 1939 - 1945 which also fits with the cuff title.

Regards,

Marcus

[Oldrusty26]

Thank you very much for that information .

[dhcoleterracina]

Rusty, you've probably already thought of this but I would also focus on getting as much info on the vet that you can. Perhaps there are old family photos of these items, perhaps he gave an interview with the newspaper talking about his war experiences. There are unit histories that can be detailed and might give trophy stories. I think that there might be other small items that might be considered smalls that the family has and think unimportant. Although you aren't interested in selling at this time, there will be a time later when provenance will be very important. You need to establish a trail on things like this.

[Ian Hulley]

I believe based on the medal configuration, that this tunic may have belonged to Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob Berger.

Other than commenting on the original insignia many, many pages ago I've not commented but looking through all the photos I can of Berger all I ever see is a single (very long) ribbon bar. Even very late war, still only one. He obviously had the broad shoulders to have that single bar.

Ian

[BenVK]

Sorry, there's no chance it's Berger.
Look how wide he is, even at the Nuremberg trials after losing a lot of weight.

[mevm36]

Other than commenting on the original insignia many, many pages ago I've not commented but looking through all the photos I can of Berger all I ever see is a single (very long) ribbon bar. Even very late war, still only one. He obviously had the broad shoulders to have that single bar.

Ian

Hi Ian,

Yes as photos of Berger are difficult to find showing various tunics. I agree that the long ribbon bar is a standout, however having said that, judging from the double row of award loops on this tunic, the lower row would have been for the ribbon bar and the upper row would have been for the medal bar when worn. Typically when the medal bar was worn, due to the vertical hanging length of the medal bar, it was placed further up on the tunic to ensure that the golden party badge was not obscured nor any of the other awards on the tunic pocket were obscured. Also the ribbon bar would have been left on the tunic in some instances and the medal bar just worn over the ribbon bar thus covering it. Again, this individual is just a hunch, however the award placement, cuff title, rank, possible tunic size (judging from photos) seem to fit.

Again, just a hunch, and we may never know who this tunic belonged to, however the list can be narrowed down to one of several out of 102 confirmed Obergruppenfuhrers.

Regards,

Marcus

[mevm36]

Sorry, there's no chance it's Berger.
Look how wide he is, even at the Nuremberg trials after losing a lot of weight.

Hmmmm, perhaps you are right on that one, I did manage to find a few photos on the internet which showed him at a much lower weight, but again it is very difficult to tell. Back to the research!

Marcus

[BenVK]

Everyone’s entitled to an opinion but facts and the item speak for themselves.

Yes they do John so I think Robert made a valid point about one of the tears in the sleeve going underneath the eagle.
Not a big deal in my opinion if the eagle has been restored which it probably has but it does raise the question whether anything else like the tabs have also been restored. Which is why I asked to see the back of the collars..
But I'm just a dumb ass cap collector so what the hell do I know?.

[John Pic]

I believe based on the medal configuration, that this tunic may have belonged to Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob Berger. This is based on the lower loops on the left breast pocket which would indicate a star award of some kind. Here is a list of Bergers awards from which you can see he was awarded various axis awards which would be authorized for wear.

• Iron Cross Second Class and Sturmmedaille Ypern – 26 November 1914
• Württemberg Military Merit Medal in Gold – 21 May 1915
• Knight's Cross of the Württemberg Military Order of Merit – 5 April 1918
• Wound Badge in Silver – 18 June 1918
• Iron Cross First Class and Knight's Cross First Class of the Friedrich Order with Swords – 11 August 1918
• Honour Cross with Swords
• SA Sports Badge in Gold – 15 December 1934
• Sword of Honour of the Reichsführer-SS and SS Honour Ring – 1936
• German Olympic Decoration First Class – 16 August 1936
• Sudetenland Medal with "Prague Castle" Bar
• Memel Medal
• Nazi Party Long Service Award in Silver and Bronze
• Social Welfare Decoration Second Class
• War Merit Cross Second Class with Swords – 11 January 1939
• War Merit Cross First Class with Swords – 1 July 1940
• Order of the Cross of Liberty First Class with Swords (Finland) – 10 September 1941
• Military Virtue Medal (Romania) – 5 June 1942
• First Class Commander of the Order of the White Rose of Finland with Jewels and Swords – 26 August 1942
• Grand Cross of the Order of the Holy Crown of Hungary with Swords and War Decoration – 1 October 1942
• Golden Party Badge – 30 January 1943
• German Cross in Silver – 1 July 1943
• Grand Cross of the Order of the Crown of King Zvonimir with Swords and Star (giving the title of vitez (knight) – 7 December 1943)
• Hitler Youth Badge in Gold – 30 January 1944
• 1939 Clasp to the Iron Cross, 15 September 1944
• 1939 clasp to the Iron Cross First Class – 18 September 1944
• Slovak War Victory Cross First Class – 20 September 1944
• Knight's Cross of the War Merit Cross with Swords – 26 September 1944

Again this is just an educated guess based on the medal configuration however Berger was the Chief of the SS-Hauptamt (SS Main office) from 1939 - 1945 which also fits with the cuff title.

Regards,

Marcus

I think you’re right, I thought either Berger, Wittje or Heissmeyer maybe Karl Wolf.
Thanks also for proof on the Jodl uniform.

[John Pic]

Yes they do John so I think Robert made a valid point about one of the tears in the sleeve going underneath the eagle.
Not a big deal in my opinion if the eagle has been restored which it probably has but it does raise the question whether anything else like the tabs have also been restored. Which is why I asked to see the back of the collars..
But I'm just a dumb ass cap collector so what the hell do I know?.

Well Ben as a dumb SS cap collector your knowledge of cloth workmanship is pretty darn good.

[BenVK]

Thank you sir, I very much appreciate that because I respect your opinion and always take note of what you have to say .