MAX Show Polizei Helmet

[Blaz]

Lelez,

...B&S - we don't sell only top helmets. Our helmets are in different condition for different collectors. There are many collectors who can't afford to buy only untouched helmets. Many collectors prefer to buy original helmets with original (replaced or not) liner instead of current reproduction, often price of such helmets is similar to good reproduction.

Untouched helmets are rare, and every time we sell any untouched helmets, we say it in our description - UNTOUCHED.

Another point is that our web site is not only for top helmet collectors but also for people who want to have any original German helmet.

Secondly, it's obvious that the most historical and collectible value have completely untouched helmets with not replaced parts, not cleaned, etc. But there are only 30% of untouched helmets in the market, in Poland there are maybe 5% of original untouched helmets in the market.

Another point is an "inspection time" which allows any customer/collector to handle any item and make his final decision to buy it or not.

Kind Regards ,
Blazej Przybylski B&S

both Erich and superraton did a good job with Ken N and B&S i would say and i d say that there s been and there will be lots of helmets around internet that will be the same....i think things like this makes people want to stop collectin helmets for "helmet-depression"

[Daniele C]

Blaz,i know perfectly that untouched helmets are rare but at least if a shell was found ,it would be nice to read on the description that the liner was replaced no?mine is just an observation.Of course that helmet u had on B&S and the one in Ken s site have a different storys and replacin an original liner with another is different from just instertin a missin liner.

[hochiminhtrail]

Hy

being myself a uniform collector, i can only say that a lot of EM tunics and i will say most of the tunics here in Europe have replaced insignias, because most of them have been teared down after the war.

i have no problems myself buying a uniform with post war added insignias, if those are 100% original, i think the price would be 20% or 25% cheaper than a uniform with original applied insignias.

i do understand the helmet collector that are paying top prices for a helmet that supposed to be untouched and then later discover that there has been somthing messed with.

i would probably have bought this helmet if really wanted one for my collection, i wouldnt have minded a replaced liner. But again there should have been price reduction or a note from the seller, that it has a replace liner.

The practice is done almost everywhere i agree with that with ICH und DU, for me it s not a very big deal, but i think the person who purchased that helmet can either sent it back to the dealer or either ask a 25% refund of the total value.

from the little i know of helmets, i would guess that the most important, is that the decals are 100% original, chinstrap and ofcourse with an original paint, thats how i would look at the helmet.
this is how i look at at uniforms, is the uniform 100% original!!!! maybe the shoulder boards are missing or the collar tabs or even both, what can i do to make it look better, just add what is missing, otherwise it would look silly a uniform without collar tabs for example.

Ok the liner have been replaced by the dealer, probaly because of money. I think it would be great if the dealer would come up on this thread and say somthing, I think Ken should come up on the site, he is doing more harm to himself being absent.

Cheers

Alex

[panzerlord1]

lets know who u are!!!

Charly, Charly, "come out come out who ever you are". who are we going to be today then????


Panzerlord

[PAB]

B&s

another find on the web...........


before...

I am the collector who bought the EF SS lid off bands. I have to say that I am disapointed in Szymon from bands as he didnt even answer my email personally but sent two of our previous emails after my purchace.

The pic without the liner before


a print screen of it on thier site. no mention of added liner


After I paid WestUnion after a load of hassle re-security issues. I recievd an email fromSzymon casually mentionig the liner might have been replaced or remounted.
The Emails
First one was to tell him money went through and he returned it with his reply about liner

Message-ID: <44B90424.5050401@bands-militaria.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:05:08 +0200
From: B&S Militaria <bands@bands-militaria.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050923)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: TonyDoherty999@aol.com
Subject: Re: Your B&S Order #2554 M42 Single Decal Waffen SS Combat Helmet
References: <549.33a5163.31ea4d1c@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <549.33a5163.31ea4d1c@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Dear Peter,
I am sorry to hear that you had a problem to send the money. It seems
that some people are more and more picky about security and it has pros
and cons. Anyway, I am happy to hear that you found a way to send the
payment, thank you !

Regarding the M42 SS Helmet, it is 100% genuine. I think the description
does not say that the liner might have been replaced or remounted as the
helmet looks cleaned from inside by the previous owner. The runes are of
early style what for some not experienced collectors can be questionable
but you also should not worry about it at all. If you have any questions
now or later, please feel free to ask. The other M42 SS Helmet that we
have for sale was never remounted and has 2nd style runes decal ( it is
item #2484 ) . It was found by me and Blazej at a flee marked a few
years ago. If you were interested in this one too, we can sell it 1300
GBP ( Normally we are asking 2350 EUR what is more than 1600 GBP )

Have a nice weekend !

All the best,
Szymon , B&S .


TonyDoherty999@aol.com wrote:

> Szymon what a load of hassle that was tried 4 times online as they
> would not put it thruogh they said security issues? then my card
> company stopped it going through becuase it came up as an irregular
> spending pattern because I dont use the card that much.
>
> Any way its through now as I have done it over the phone
>
> Peter Bowden sent you $-------
>
> mtcn is 9240178164
> tel: -----------------------------
> My Addess is
>
> Peter Bowden
> 19 Langland Close
> ---------------------------------
> ---------------------------------
> LANCS
> UNITED KINGDOM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Email Regarding the liner and rivets

Message-ID: <44BB9643.1080602@bands-militaria.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:53:07 +0200
From: B&S Militaria <bands@bands-militaria.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050923)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: TonyDoherty999@aol.com
Subject: Re: Your B&S Order #2554 M42 Single Decal Waffen SS Combat Helmet
References: <53c.3af8e3e.31ebabd9@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <53c.3af8e3e.31ebabd9@aol.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="------------080308040207040702050807"



Dear Peter,
Please find additional pictures enclosed. The pins are looking OK .
Condition of the dome is good.
Regarding the other SS M42 helmet you are right that it had thin cover
of black paint as it must have been used by fireman after the war.

Best regards ,
Szymon , B&S .


TonyDoherty999@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/16/2006 02:30:16 GMT Daylight Time,
> bands@bands-militaria.com writes:
> Szymon I have just read your email again I missed the bit about the
> liner being replaced has it ? do the pins show signs of many bends? what is the condition of the dome?
>
>B&S Blazej and Szymon had the chance to say yes the liner has been added but chose not too. And even confirming the rivets are fine ect when we and they know they are not but replacements.

I gave them the chance to refund me but they did not reply and posted on here instead.

I have everything saved and liner rivet pics and emails Szymon, Blazej



1. There was no mention on the description on your site. That is the first no no

2. I paid on the 15th and email to you dated 15th

3. after I paid did you feel the need to mention it MIGHT,NOT HAD,MIGHT have been remounted or replaced.

4 I looked at the photos you sent of the pins with a message to you they looked straight and fine. ie not messed with. When asked by me Is it replacedYou could and should have said yes! But you didnt you kept up the charade,You said nothing. But knowing all along it was a replacement.

So to me these two are now bad if you collect helmets ,once burned twice shy and if you do get screwed they are in Poland and the Czech Republic.

And they only send past emails without any dialog Pete

[C7riS]

And our new friend seems to always miss the point everyone makes: it's not about a replaced liner, it's about not disclosing the fact to the buyers in the item's description and making it seem a sort of "unique, transitional" item. !

I agree with you on that issue of course. We are all going a bit out of line here, but then again, doing fraud is one thing and a horrible one as well.. Iv been tricked before belive me.
But my point of view here is, that people will always fake and forge etc but ruining a piece of history wont account for any of the $$$!

This is history we are talking about here. 40 years ago people didnt see harm in removing paint or painting over a lid or applying "cool decals"..
And now 60 years later we have improved alot to preserver these relics, but I say, removing the linar from its origin and putting it in another helmet is as bad as any other minor change to a original relic!
Its just passed 60 years now, and these items will live on for more than 500 years!
THink of what peolpe will say about us in that time! "HOW could ANYONE ever think of doing this to original pieces??!?! did they have that much lack of forsight!?!"

Two points im concerned about is, one the fraud wich is terrible in it self.. and second of all ruening history on the count of it!

100 years from now, will messed with and replcaed/"restored" helmets be the closest anyone will get to the real thing?

poor shame..

[Daniele C]

unfortunately Honesty is way rarer than a SS double decal to find nowdays...

[hochiminhtrail]

well of course honesty is somthing important, but if you look what kind of money is being paid for items, no wonder that some are taking adavantage.
Again what Mr singer said is right let the item talk to you, we should all know our lessons, i have bought fake stuff just because i trusted the person who sold it to me, but the mistake was mine by not doing my homework.
and i think that this forum is very good for us collectors, we bring up stuff online when we are not 100% sure. It will allways be a cat and mouse game, who knows more. And knowledge is what we all have to work on, because copies are coming out everday.

Cheers

Alex

[peacenotwar]

Hi Guys

I know the person that has brought this helmet , when it arrives we will inspect it and the post our findings on this forum!!
If this helmet has been tampered with then it will go back to Ken and he will have to hang his head in shame. I would like to thank all the forum members for there posts because without them the helmet would have been sold on to some other collector!!!

Panzerlord

Any news about the helmet?
Thanks, Mauro

[Blaz]

Dear PAB and Lelez,

B&S has clear rules, everyone who buys from us accepts the rules. As I said in my previous message , we sell various condition helmets. Untouched helmets are rare and expensive. Avg. price of M42 SD Waffen SS helmet in good untouched cond. is about 5000usd. Mr. PAB paid 3 times cheaper for his M42 SS helmet. I would be happy if we could provide only untouched helmets but it's not so easy. We want to have customers who can't afford to buy helmets for 5000usd. We are not a super market where one can buy minty items. Minty items pop out from time to time but minty items are very rare ad very expensive and not too many collectors can afford to buy them.
Mr. PAB, was informed that the liner might had been replaced and he had inspection time to accept it or not. The helmet was not sold as UNTOUCHED, just as a helmet in avg. cond with private information to the buyer about the possibility of replacement of the liner.
I am sorry guys, but I can't see any evidence of dishonesty from our site. Everyone who wants to buy from us must accept the rules , the rules help to avoid situation like this. Sometimes our description are not so good as we wish, but every customer can ask about additional pictures or about better description of every part of item.

Kind Regards ,
Blazej Przybylski

[PAB]

Dear PAB and Lelez,

B&S has clear rules, everyone who buys from us accepts the rules. As I said in my previous message , we sell various condition helmets. Untouched helmets are rare and expensive. Avg. price of M42 SD Waffen SS helmet in good untouched cond. is about 5000usd. Mr. PAB paid 3 times cheaper for his M42 SS helmet. I would be happy if we could provide only untouched helmets but it's not so easy. We want to have customers who can't afford to buy helmets for 5000usd. We are not a super market where one can buy minty items. Minty items pop out from time to time but minty items are very rare ad very expensive and not too many collectors can afford to buy them.
Mr. PAB, was informed that the liner might had been replaced and he had inspection time to accept it or not. The helmet was not sold as UNTOUCHED, just as a helmet in avg. cond with private information to the buyer about the possibility of replacement of the liner.
I am sorry guys, but I can't see any evidence of dishonesty from our site. Everyone who wants to buy from us must accept the rules , the rules help to avoid situation like this. Sometimes our description are not so good as we wish, but every customer can ask about additional pictures or about better description of every part of item.

Kind Regards ,
Blazej Przybylski

So why did you not say it was a touched up piece in your description

So why only after I paid and the western Union payment was through did you then mention the possibility not fact that it might have been added

So why did you say the rivets were fine and not replaced also

I could go on.

Finally I just recieved this email the last bit

If you are looking for an untouched piece of M42 SS Helmet , I think it
would go for at least $5000 and that is why I am a little surprised with
your complains regarding the price you paid.

So I was a fool to even expect it to be original? Pete

[PAB]

Here is a couple of pics of the rivet a good match for colour and age ect looks fine to me. And inside no real signs of being rebent. So you guys did a real good job on it. Would have fooled a lot it did me Pete

[Blaz]

Dear PAB ,

Every part of your helmet is original. Nobody said that the rivets were not replaced. There are some "one looker" helmets, you keep in your hands and you know that any part was not replaced, but also there are some helmets when it is hard to judge if any part was replaced or not. That's why we say UNTOUCHED, only in these cases when there is no doubt.

I hope that you will be satisfied with the helmet because it's nice original piece, maybe it's not a top SS helmet but still nice original SS helmet at fair price you paid. If you really feel bad with your SS helmet we can trade it for EF M42 Waffen SS helmet in very good cond. , completely untouched - "one looker" - but we wouldn't sell it for less than 7000usd. Waffen SS EF pattern helmets are really rare...

Kind Regards ,
Blazej Przybylski

[CWP]

I think we should stick to the discussion of the ruined Police helmet. I personally don't see any problem with the transaction for the SS helmet. Before the inspection period was over, the buyer was privately informed that the liner may have been replaced. He had time to inspect it and determine if it met his standards of originality. There are so many helmets with replaced liners that unless the helmet is described as untouched, it is reasonable to assume that some part may be an original replacement. The dealer shouldn't have to say that the liner is replaced on the web site, especially if he privately notifies the buyer of this. Expecting to get an untouched SS helmet from a dealer for a bargain price, especially if the helmet is not clearly described as being untouched, may be unreasonable. In the case of the Police helmet, the item was described as being assembled in a transitional period which was a lie.

Liners were replaced during the war for various reasons. Unless you buy the item from a veteran, I don't think it is possible to say the liner is the only one that has ever been in the helmet. We all like to get untouched helmets but replaced liners are the rule, not the exception.

[PAB]

Here is an email wher e you replied to my question about the rivets. No doubt you said they were good in response to my question


Message-ID: <44BB9643.1080602@bands-militaria.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:53:07 +0200
From: B&S Militaria <bands@bands-militaria.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20050923)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: TonyDoherty999@aol.com
Subject: Re: Your B&S Order #2554 M42 Single Decal Waffen SS Combat Helmet
References: <53c.3af8e3e.31ebabd9@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <53c.3af8e3e.31ebabd9@aol.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="------------080308040207040702050807"



Dear Peter,
Please find additional pictures enclosed. The pins are looking OK .
Condition of the dome is good.
Regarding the other SS M42 helmet you are right that it had thin cover
of black paint as it must have been used by fireman after the war.

Best regards ,
Szymon , B&S .


TonyDoherty999@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/16/2006 02:30:16 GMT Daylight Time,
> bands@bands-militaria.com writes:
> Szymon I have just read your email again I missed the bit about the
> liner being replaced has it ? do the pins show signs of many bends?
> what is the condition of the dome?
> Peter


Blazej it is a nice lid and beter in hand but that is not my issue.

You and your partner in your wisdom did not enter into any dialog with me except for re sending previously sent emails. You then posted here so left me with no option but to attempt dialog on here. You might of been better just giving me the little amount I paid back to me and then re-listing it back on your site as with replaced liner and rivets. I think you need to understand what UNTOUCHED meens to collectors in the west.

I will not reply anymore unless you state somthing that is I know not to be to be a true state of the facts. Peter

To your credit you did change the description on your site of the other SS lid after I mentioned the black paint.