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**Mike Davis** · 05-10-2006, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Jim Toncar

Gentlemen, I would not be to critical of Mr. Singer, I have been put in this same position quite a number of times also. You asked for a opinion, you received same, to go into specific details on this Forum amounts to "copies that are harder to detect" I would say this to you , he is the "go to " guy for Panzer items . He is telling you to study the hat and compare it to know originals, then make your decision. This M-43 e hat left me with some doubts also.
jimtoncar

Agreed 100%

**Glenn McInnes** · 05-10-2006, 08:36 AM

Here is another presently for sale...For a very rare and valuable cap they are all over the place

Glenn

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sspz43side.jpg (38.5 KB, 411 views)

**Glenn McInnes** · 05-10-2006, 08:37 AM

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sspz43insig.jpg (89.1 KB, 415 views)

**Glenn McInnes** · 05-10-2006, 08:38 AM

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sspz43inside.jpg (61.6 KB, 417 views)

**Glenn McInnes** · 05-10-2006, 08:38 AM

...

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sspz43insidescalop.jpg (48.7 KB, 415 views)

**90th Light** · 05-10-2006, 09:04 AM

I would love to know the reasons why Mr Singer thinks this is bad ? I am not questioning his judgement. What I am trying to ask is, can we trust any of the SS M43's made this way with that Herring-bone lining ? or are 99% of them bad both the Field-gray ones and the Panzer ones ? It makes sense that a resonable number of these hats would have been found un-issued at the end of WW2 or is this wrong ?

If they are all bad, they were made along time ago because I know of one which was picked up in 1972 and that would have been a master-piece in reproduction back then but in all fairness they were making some excellent reproductions at that time. Nothing like today however.

I welcome any more information which could help us

**ReichsHeini** · 05-10-2006, 10:09 AM

I am terribly sorry but although I am no expert I do not like the totenkopf insignia-frankly it looks fake. It would be interesting to see what others think. The adler or eagle looks ok.

So many experts available here on the Internet!
How do you have a good skull and bad eagle on the same trap??

That hat is a fake or else the Absolutely best deal I have seen in a decade.

Let's evaluate what you really mean here? Your satement basically says that it has to be fake because the price is too good for you to believe. I don't see anything at all about construction or materials, etc. You simply state the fact that you don't find the price in line.

It would be different perhaps, were I to have come down on the favorable side with my opinion of this hat, then no reason seems to be required.

You already said it has to be fake because it looks too good for the price it is now being offered at. That means it looks like it should be be costing more. I can only imagine the information you would get by sending the cap to this guy for his hand-on opinion.

What I am trying to ask is, can we trust any of the SS M43's made this way with that Herring-bone lining ?

I don't even know where this idea came from?

Certainly some original SS m-43 caps have a Herringbone liner. Anyone who says any different is insane. Most people agree that this insignia is attched correctly also.
I myself don't care for or collect SS m-43 caps with trapezoids, because I like to collect two-piece caps. This cap has original insignia no doubt. When it was attached, nobody can tell for certain. Not even the self-appointed know-it-all experts. Is the cap itself original??? Some say maybe not....
Yet not one person can say "why" they have reservations on the cap itself. (Sorry - it is super secret) Must be something their X-ray eyes can detect that ordinary humans can't.
The bottom line is you should study these types of caps and make your own opinions! The results you get from Internet forums can be really confusing and lack information.

**tgn** · 05-10-2006, 11:38 AM

I read this thread and all I can say is P.T. Barnum is smiling in his grave today...Tom

**BenVK** · 05-10-2006, 12:53 PM

Best thread we've had on the SS forum for ages !

However, let's not forget that Gary is presently trying to sell this cap. Like Jerry said, if there's something specific about it that someone doesn't like, let's hear it. The price has absolutely nothing to do with it. Real is real and if it's cheap as well, pat yourself on the back, you just got a bargain!

Regarding herringbone liners. I bought this up because it's a feature that I like to see. A lot of fake caps have this lining as well of course but in my experience and from the ones I've seen, it's easier to detect false aging of this material compared with cotton or rayon.

**GARY1405** · 05-10-2006, 01:05 PM

Thank you ReichsHeini

You summed up exactly my thoughts

Positives for the Hat are:

1 - Trap is original
2 - Nothing negative about the way it is stitched to the cap
3 - The linner shows no tampering so not machine stitched on afterwards
4 - Not heard anything about the buttons being suspect
5 - We know M43s have this type of linner

Negatives

1 - It looks too new.......something i asked when i went about buying it and was informed it was unissue stock
2 - The price......i am not a dealer or out to over charge...i based this price on what i paid a bit more to cover the passage of time...which is what i thought selling on the forums is all about.

Something i am not sure about is it possible to machine stitch a trap such as this without having to remove the linner ??

Also please please the doubting few share with me and the rest of the believers what you specifically do not like..............to cast an opinion but not say why is a waste of time as talk is cheap.

Thanks to those who have put an opinion on and backed up why....in my experience in the law proffession - i find those who do not validate their opinions, usually do not... for fear of being wrong and damaging the way they think others currently perceive them.............

Lets see if you want to put your opinions to the test of your fellow forum members or will you back off now that your credability is under scrutiny ?

Game on
Gary

**GARY1405** · 05-10-2006, 01:11 PM

If anyone is serious about wanting to buy the M43 then i am more than happy to give a full refund on payment if they are disattisfied...p/p cost not refundable...although i will cover the cost of posting payment back......

Saddly Mr Singer your terms to cover your expert services are without proof of their value. Why would i pay money for your advice, when you can not even give me proof that you have any relevant advice to give !!!

Thanks
Gary

**B. N. Singer** · 05-10-2006, 01:14 PM

[QUOTE=GARY1405]Lets see if you want to put your opinions to the test of your fellow forum members or will you back off now that your credability is under scrutiny ?

I'll back off and care not about my collecting creditability! As for the opinion, mine remains Unchanged!

B. N. Singer

**Mike Davis** · 05-10-2006, 01:17 PM

Sirs: This needn’t generate into an ‘us’ vs. ‘them’ discussion between collecting factions. The dilemma that seems to arise over and over is that an item is posted for comment and if a skeptical opinion is expressed, the person stating the contrary opinion is asked to explain exactly why he has reservations. And why shouldn’t he?
<O

I can naturally understand that evidence of the skeptic’s opinion is wanted and I can also certainly appreciate the frustration expressed when he is loathe to supply it! After all, if the skeptic is unwilling to share the exact nature of his reservation, how can his judgment be evaluated and how can anyone learn from his observations?
<O

The problem is, by revealing specific construction faults, the skeptic may make it easier for the innovative fakers to correct their errors on the next batch – and that is why, in my opinion, the skeptics may be reluctant to be specific.
<O

I offer no remedy for this dilemma other than to say one must consider the source of the opinion expressed. By the way, my comments do not infer any particular judgment about the cap that is the subject of this post.

**Gene** · 05-10-2006, 01:52 PM

What are the thoughts about the example Glenn posted?

**B. N. Singer** · 05-10-2006, 01:55 PM

[QUOTE=Gene]What are the thoughts about the example Glenn posted

Gene,
Although the pictures are less revealing and without seeing more, I would vote the same.

B. N. Singer

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And How About This Dream.......m43 Ss Pz Cap At E-stand

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