red waffenfarbe on black pz uniforms ?

[Panzer Rob]

Galizien41,

Would it be possible to please see a shot of the reverse of those tabs?

Thanks,
Rob

[PaulR]

Richard, this photo of yours is an Admin Official in a Panzer Wrapper. Just as rare(maybe rarer). Look at the shoulder boards. That is the reason he does not have the TK in the tabs. The waffenfarbe on the collar tabs looks really light(maybe pink)?

[Lombardi]

The Black Wrap with red piping was part of the early uniform of the Sturmartillerie crews (the photos marked "von Aufsess" are not of Panzer crews, but StuG crews... see his excellent website dedicated to the StuG units).

Links to Black Wraps w red tabs:

http://www.die-sturmartillerie.com/ariLehr.htm

http://www.die-sturmartillerie.com/konv912.htm

There was also a "Signal" number (year 1940) that presented the new StuG weapon that portrayed many photos of Black Wrap clad crews.

The Black Wrap w red tabs continued to be worn throughout the war (the other experimental StuG wrap with dark green collar not http://www.die-sturmartillerie.com/konv912.htm) by StuG crews (mostly Officer) as a "presentation" cerimonial uniforms or for portrait shots (see the book about 276 StuGAbt). We can also notice that the "old" Black Wraps were retained by the StuG School Juterbog...

Of course the uniform could be donned by other PzArty units (some suggest that the Black Wrap w red piping and TK was issued also to StuG elements that formed one of the Abt in mixed Panzer-Rgt of late war Panzer Divisions: in one of the 2 Abts, the Panzer IVs or Vs were replaced by StuGs).

[Lombardi]

Sure... basically it says that during the 1940 campaign in the west, the Sturmgeschutz units used the same black uniform of the Panzertruppen with Totenköpfe on the collar tabs, but with red waffenfarbe (Artillery), not pink.

100% correct!

...and follows explaining that during 1941 the Feldgrau Wrap w red piped tabs AND w skulls supersed the Black Wrap w red piped tabs and skulls...

This is a nice Wrap...

[WWIIBuff]

Sturmartillerie tabs

John Wilson and PaulR, the pictures Richard posted on pages 48, 49, 50, and 51 all show the same guy. These are samples of 4 picture from the larger group in my collection. He is from a Sturmartillerie unit that wore black wraps with red piped tabs, and skulls removed per the issued order.

One of the photo collectors on this forum did a fairly good study a few years ago showing the difference between red piping and pink piping in period b&w photos. The is an obvious difference. All the b&w examples posted on this thread definately show red piping.

[WWIIBuff]

Sturmartillerie

Here is another example for you...

[PaulR]

John Wilson and PaulR, the pictures Richard posted on pages 48, 49, 50, and 51 all show the same guy. These are samples of 4 picture from the larger group in my collection. He is from a Sturmartillerie unit that wore black wraps with red piped tabs, and skulls removed per the issued order.

One of the photo collectors on this forum did a fairly good study a few years ago showing the difference between red piping and pink piping in period b&w photos. The is an obvious difference. All the b&w examples posted on this thread definately show red piping.

Those are great photos. I do know anything about this guy? Same guy are not, he is definitately an Administrative Official in that photo I reposted.

BTW, those are some great tunics you posted!

[musketiii]

Please post more fotos if you have them of your black wrapper,.Coseups would be very nice. Do you have a name and history for this admin offz? Many thanks,John Wilson

[WWIIBuff]

Sturmartillerie

Hi guys,

Sorry if I confused you with my posts, but the uniform I posted above does not belong to the guy in my photos.

PaulR you may be right, I didn't disagree, maybe he was promoted to admin. I know nothing about those boards he is wearing.

John I'll post more pictures of the wrap later in a seperate thread, and unfortunately I do not know any information about the guy in my pictures or the guy who owned my wrap.

[WWIIBuff]

Sturmartillerie

Another reference picture... (different group)

[WWIIBuff]

Sturmartillerie

And another...

[Richard P]

Thanks for the great additions John. Notice that at least two of the guys have their collars piped in red also. Great proof of red piped collars.
Richard

[PaulR]

Richard, this photo of yours is an Admin Official in a Panzer Wrapper. Just as rare(maybe rarer). Look at the shoulder boards. That is the reason he does not have the TK in the tabs. The waffenfarbe on the collar tabs looks really light(maybe pink)?

If you look closely at the photograph, the color of the nebenfarbe on his shoulder board matches exactly to that of the outer piping of the collar tab. If this color is red, the most likely specialty match(there are only 2 with this nebenfarbe) is Artillery Measuring Service.

There is a single nebenfarbe specialty listed for pink, which is for a clothing depot official. I kinda doubt with this man's specialty that this would be an option, unless he was seriously wounded or there was some other situation.

[Luca Ongaro]

A pair of red piped skull tabs of mine.

Hello Jerry, can you show the reverse please, I like those skulls
Ciao.
Luca

[galizien41]

Oops just saw this again. I will make a picture and post it soon!