red waffenfarbe on black pz uniforms ?

[MisterX]

6. Original photo red piped wrapper, no skulls, credit on photo.

Are you sure that they wear red piping? In 15 years of panzer collection i never seen a wrapper with red piping but hundrets of photos of wrapper with out the skulls. i also had some photos from assult gun shool, all wear the wrapper without skulls. Sorry but i dont thing that the photo shows a red piped wrapper.

[Panzer Rob]

Are you sure that they wear red piping? In 15 years of panzer collection i never seen a wrapper with red piping but hundrets of photos of wrapper with out the skulls. i also had some photos from assult gun shool, all wear the wrapper without skulls. Sorry but i dont thing that the photo shows a red piped wrapper.

So just because you've never seen a wrapper with red piping means they never existed?

Take this for what it's worth, but the small inset on the left is a red piped collar tab from a StuG crew member (taken from a photo in a Soldbuch in my collection). It. along with the inset on the right (taken from one of the portraits posted above) match up exactly with Richard's wrap when converted to grayscale...

Granted, pink and red piping are very similar in tone when the two are converted to grayscale, but it's going to take a lot more than your never seeing red piped tabs on a wrapper to get me to believe that the combination never existed.


Rob

[Richard P]

There was a whole album to stug. Abt. 202 and I was outbid on ebay but thought I had saved all the photos. So far I can only find these 3. They all had black wraps with field gray caps, some tabs had skulls, some did not. None seem to be wearing skulls on the tabs in these photos.

Richard

[Richard P]

2.

[Richard P]

3.

[jacquesf]

Richard, and absolutely unbelievable, nice wrap. Thank you for posting and the pictures. I have seen and learned something new today. Jacques

[jacquesf]

interesting and understudied subject, here is my red piped cutoff. I have been under the assumption these were worn by some panzerartillerie units that retained the black wrapper. Is the consensus here that this type of insignia was worn by ordnance technicians attached to panzer units?

Michael, I have seen an un piped black officers wrap with the red waffenfarbe
and crossed cannons devices on the shoulderboards. It did however have the
collar lichen and not the skulls. Jacques

[derka]

hello,

Rob is right, it is almost impossible to distinguish pink from red piping on b&w period pics.
and presence or lack of skulls on colar tabs can't be considered as a definitive criteria by itself, even if following regulations order, panzer artillerie crews should not wear skulls.
for instance on this pic, i know what is the color because there are others taken at the same time.






if you have the unit's name, it could be an indication, like on Richard's pics of a stug abt, so logicaly red piping, but it could be too a temporary shortage of feldgrau suits not avaible during early unit training...

derka

[PzV]

At a local flea market here about 2 years ago I bought a very dirty leather pouch which had the remains of insignias from a soldiers uniform (for very little money!). It had one single black shoulder flap with red piping and the insignia was obviously from a Stug soldier.

[PzV]

reverse side

[derka]

re,
beautiful set !
but don't you think the shoulder strap could be a WSS model ?
derka

[Richard P]

PzV,

I remember that grouping of stug material from when you found it...very nice stuff. I agree with Derka, it is an SS EM artillery board, but it could very well have been used by a stug member in a pinch.

Here is a wrap set you guys might find interesting. It is a major general of panzer artillery. All insignia is red piped as is the collar and tabs, it is of very high quality materials and tailoring. I just snapped a quick pic so its not a quality photograph...sorry.

Richard

[PzV]

that is a possibility that the flap could be W-SS. Richard very nice jacket by the way!!!

[Richard P]

Here is a photo with 8 more panzer guys with piped red collars, tabs, and no skulls pretty much confirming that it is red piping.

Richard

[derka]

hello,

thanks to Mr McInnes for moving this thread from panzer forum to this one, for further and acurate discussion about red piping on black pz suits.
Richard, is it possible to see more pics of your general wrap ?
and a question, have someone already seen a red "blitz" insignia of nachrichtenpersonal on black background, intended to be worn on a black wrap ?

derka