red waffenfarbe on black pz uniforms ?

[Jens Thune]

Collartabs might have been replaced aswell.. the skulls look awfully small..

Here is a picture of him in captivaty showing no tabs

[Naval Enigma]

As a new collector I find this thread hugely helpful. I can assume other collectors may be like me in that I dream of big items, rare items and personality items.

A general's wrap could be the centerpiece of a Panzer focused collection. Generals wore them. That is information is out there.

So the question becomes, as a collector should I even bother chasing a General ranks wrap at all?

Are there ANY out there with proven provenance that we (this board) or other recognized experts agree on?

There are incredibly rare and one of a kind items that have survived. How come none of these very high ranking wraps survived?

I don't think anyone wrote that Panzer wraps were not worn by generals (as evidenced by the above and other photos). But personally, based on the above photos, I'd be extremely skeptical about the examples on display at Münster.

[Naval Enigma]

Here are some pictures of the wrap in Münster.. it is difficult to take pictures through glass..

A good polarizing filter will cut the glare. You rotate it until you can't see the reflections.

[Leroy]

How come none of these very high ranking wraps survived?

You can safely bet that SOME did survive, some with their original insignia and some stripped. I saw one 20 years ago in a private collection, but it was sold for ever increasing prices and has now disappeared into a highend collection somewhere.

I wouldn't devote time to actively looking for one. Instead, I'd try to find a nice original wrapper in good condition and just hope maybe, someday, you will find yourself in the lucky position of being able to acquire an authentic general's wrapper.

[Johnny R]

Collartabs might have been replaced aswell.. the skulls look awfully small..

Here is a picture of him in captivaty showing no tabs

That is a nice picture. I suspect all POWs were told to remove the national insignia and SS runes etc. but were allowed to wear rank and basic branch tabs etc. after May 8th, I have never found the order.

[LuckyStrike23]

Collartabs might have been replaced aswell.. the skulls look awfully small..

Here is a picture of him in captivaty showing no tabs

Good observation. I noticed the same when I was in Munster. In my opinion at least the skulls are not genuine on the Eberbach wrap. By the way the 1957er KC doesnt fit the tunic either in my opinon.

[Naval Enigma]

You can safely bet that SOME did survive, some with their original insignia and some stripped. I saw one 20 years ago in a private collection, but it was sold for ever increasing prices and has now disappeared into a highend collection somewhere.

I wouldn't devote time to actively looking for one. Instead, I'd try to find a nice original wrapper in good condition and just hope maybe, someday, you will find yourself in the lucky position of being able to acquire an authentic general's wrapper.

Thank you! That is very sage advice.

[Richard P]

Here are some pictures of the wrap in Münster.. it is difficult to take pictures through glass..

Jens,

Thanks for the more current photos. The breast eagle looks good, the boards seem O.K. although the silver cords seem quite tarnished, possibly because they have some real silver content. The tabs still look like the old fakes.

The Eberbach tunic would require some closer photos and as Naval Enigma suggested, a filter might help with all photos. The tabs look like they might be those old over sized fakes too. Seeing both in person, even through glass, would clear up a number of questions for me, like are the wraps custom tailored, issue, or even whether original. The real questions would be whats inside the wraps.

Richard

[Richard P]

Here is another photo of panzer general Eberback in captivity and you can see his panzer wraps collar is still piped, whether gold or pink, it can't quite be distinguished. Of special interest is his overseas cap which appears to have all the general's gilt goodies including soutache...but no eagle.

[Richard P]

Here are a couple of old photos of the Guderian tunic showing the tab and eagle, which may help shed a little light.

[Richard P]

Here are some shots of a von Mannteufel wrap and extras that were sold by Herman Historica I believe. It was really hard to tell much with this wrap from the small photos provided. I don't think the cuff title seemed to have been on it long. The only photos I remember of him wearing an overseas cap did not have the soutache...of course he probably had more than one and maybe just complied with the soutache removal on the one he wore all the time.

[Richard P]

Cuff title and extras.

[Naval Enigma]

Cufftitle looks like it shrunk in the wash.

It is clearly not tailor applied.

What is that unusual pattern PAB in the lower picture?

(My ignorance is bleeding through.)

Cuff title and extras.

[OSS]

Device off of a marksmanship lanyard.

[Naval Enigma]

Device off of a marksmanship lanyard.

Thank you! And obviously the Panzer lanyard is much less common than the infantry version.