Rare SS Pack Prototype Dagger

[nickn]

That's an exact quote? I think that what I said is that I have been sent pictures and was not specific that it was this dagger with the ersatz bird. Was ERM mentioned as the source? What is the post number? Fred

So the photos you were sent are not relevant to this thread??

[Frogprince]

So the photos you were sent are not relevant to this thread??

Did I say that? What is the post number? Fred

[nickn]

Did I say that? What is the post number? Fred

Sorry I thought you said the photos were of fake Christmas daggers proof they were faked but you were asked not to post them
I don’t collect DJ daggers only having one
I do collect/hoard ss and Km

[tk99]

To Nickn, Bob (and others), who still don't seem to get it:

Try studying statistics and probability calculation!

Or just buy one of these daggers: they surely will drop in price now!



Victorman

Yes Victorman. You know EVERY trade and EVERY discussion on all daggers.
Why don’t you tell Ron or Jason that they were wrong and the photos was a fake? It must be because according to you, no one has heard of SS Christmas daggers prior to 2015.

News for you. People with super high end collectibles do not share their collections. It’s people like you that instead of receiving it with an unbiased approach, trash items without keeping an open mind.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Open minds? This one wasn't traded behind closed doors - do we have to wonder why?

People with super high end collectibles do not share their collections. It’s people like you that instead of receiving it with an unbiased approach, trash items without keeping an open mind.

This is true - as I have seen it. But for those such items, then why is this one being discussed here? If it were the true "Holy Grail" amongst the unspoken, we wouldn't be here debating what we see in images, right? And you must admit - there are MANY items traded behind the scenes of closed doors that are really not what they are tarted up to be. I've seen it - and I'm sure you have too. I think back to the Kaltenbrunner sword - for those that recall. Sometimes I have to remind myself, there is a reason why some things are kept secret and traded in the shadows.

[BobI]

Fred,
I am not trying to attack you and as I have said, you do have great knowledge in many areas. If I buy a bayonet or WWII rifle and some other edged weapons, I am coming to you for advice!!!!
But....on WWII I don't think all of these skills are transferable and this is where we beat heads! You do try and have helped a lot of people! This is not your major area and there are some gaps.
Brad, since no one knows you for your extensive experience and inside knowledge, please share some of your experiences. Multiple people call you a "troll" in internet terms. Please tell your first hand experience and not 2nd, thrd hand or more
Bob

[tk99]

This is true - as I have seen it. But for those such items, then why is this one being discussed here? If it were the true "Holy Grail" amongst the unspoken, we wouldn't be here debating what we see in images, right? And you must admit - there are MANY items traded behind the scenes of closed doors that are really not what they are tarted up to be. I've seen it - and I'm sure you have too. I think back to the Kaltenbrunner sword - for those that recall. Sometimes I have to remind myself, there is a reason why some things are kept secret and traded in the shadows.

Yes, I suppose it works both ways, but I believe in fair treatment until proven guilty.

The original owner of the SS dagger was looking to sell and was advised to post here.
But we see evidence that some in the collecting community knew about another SS Christmas dagger in 2009. In 2015 I reached out to the individual with the second known SS Christmas dagger.

Information was not divulged because, who wants to share their finds and deal with the garbage spewed by Victorman? Instead of encouraging collectors to share history and its treasures, this has become a community consumed by fear of false statements and hidden agendas.

[Frogprince]

This is true - as I have seen it. But for those such items, then why is this one being discussed here? If it were the true "Holy Grail" amongst the unspoken, we wouldn't be here debating what we see in images, right? And you must admit - there are MANY items traded behind the scenes of closed doors that are really not what they are tarted up to be. I've seen it - and I'm sure you have too. I think back to the Kaltenbrunner sword - for those that recall. Sometimes I have to remind myself, there is a reason why some things are kept secret and traded in the shadows.

Well said - it was a classic case of concealing facts, personal confrontation, and other tricks to create "believers". And years later when it went to auction and the "Elites" were not there to help defend it - I saw and could prove that what I had suspected was true. The "experts" vanishing in the mist. And for anyone who is not sure of what he is seeing I'm more than happy to explain. FP

[BobI]

Well said - it was a classic case of concealing facts, personal confrontation, and other tricks to create "believers". And years later when it went to auction and the "Elites" were not there to help defend it - I saw and could prove that what I had suspected was true. The "experts" vanishing in the mist. And for anyone who is not sure of what he is seeing I'm more than happy to explain. FP

Fred,
What was the story on that sword, it is a real turd from across a room! Who sold that and for how much, they and the buyer should be lynched!!
Bob

[N.C. Wyeth]

The point is - there is A LOT of shennigans that goes on with this stuff.

Brad, since no one knows you for your extensive experience and inside knowledge, please share some of your experiences. Multiple people call you a "troll" in internet terms. Please tell your first hand experience and not 2nd, thrd hand or more
Bob

There you go, Bob. I was there - held it in hand . . . and as far as what I say about it, you could call that 1st hand knowledge I guess . . . if that really means anything more to this conversation. You like to blow hard, claiming all your experience (loudly) - but you've had plenty of bombs in the past as well. Just get over yourself. We all know something - and multiple people have names for you as well. So what does that have to do with anything? I've seen far too many scams over the years - and have come to learn what little I have seen barely breaks the ice. I really couldn't care less about this dagger - but after all this time and talk, something about it and all the "players" just smells bad. Is it really? I bet we will never know. That is just how it is with this stuff. And if the OP is truly innocent in the mess, and the dagger is truly authentic - I really do feel Sorry for him. As for your "knowledge" . . . I TRULY hop to see you eat crow over a Japanese sword real soon. It would only be fitting - and give you that golden opportunity to live up to your "honest" word we hear you beat chest over all the time.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Fred,
What was the story on that sword, it is a real turd from across a room! Who sold that and for how much, they and the buyer should be lynched!!
Bob

Oh, come on. You know all about it. (and save that for another topic, Please)

[BobI]

There you go, Bob. I was there - held it in hand . . . and as far as what I say about it, you could call that 1st hand knowledge I guess . . . if that really means anything more to this conversation. You like to blow hard, claiming all your experience (loudly) - but you've had plenty of bombs in the past as well. Just get over yourself. We all know something - and multiple people have names for you as well. So what does that have to do with anything? I've seen far too many scams over the years - and have come to learn what little I have seen barely breaks the ice. I really couldn't care less about this dagger - but after all this time and talk, something about it and all the "players" just smells bad. Is it really? I bet we will never know. That is just how it is with this stuff. And if the OP is truly innocent in the mess, and the dagger is truly authentic - I really do feel Sorry for him. As for your "knowledge" . . . I TRULY hop to see you eat crow over a Japanese sword real soon. It would only be fitting - and give you that golden opportunity to live up to your "honest" word we hear you beat chest over all the time.

Brad,
On this sword, it is so bad it does not qualify as a high quality fake, low quality yes. If these "Christmas" daggers being discussed are fake it would be a master forger who was able to spead them all over the place to be found at different times.
On the Naginata Naoshi you are talking about, you really need to read the entire thread. I have no guilty feelings and had suggested he find more knowledgeable people. No reason for you to have responded to that thread except to try and start problems. Eat crow? I am happy for the guy if it has an authentic signature, go back and read the thread in its entirety.
Bob

[Frogprince]

Fred,
What was the story on that sword, it is a real turd from across a room! Who sold that and for how much, they and the buyer should be lynched!!
Bob

Bob, I'm probably not the only one who knows the story, and will have to find my original file to see what's there. I also think that one or more of those who may or may not have been involved are now deceased. From a admittedly vague memory I think that originally !00,00K was a number that was mentioned that was brought down to 60-70K and maybe even lower. But I'm not claiming any kind of accuracy with that. The auction sale maybe 25K - 35K and as before I'm not claiming any kind of accuracy there other. Maybe some others have better information.

PS: Something that I want to add is that "TR dagger/sword etc. expertise" from owning and handling a lot of items that fall in the "TR" category can sometimes mean absolutely "squat" if you don't have any idea of what you are looking at in the way the fakery has been accomplished. And/or other clues that should trip some alarm wires and tell you something is not quite right. And some of the names from the Kaltenbrunnner sword discussion were not at the bottom of the dealer/collector pyramid. Nor were they "newbies" - they were well seasoned with a long time in the hobby. IMO, on the collector side, it was the desire to own something really rare that would be the crown jewel of their collection that blinded them to the possibility of being scammed. Fred

[BobI]

Fred,
Thanks, is the story on this Kaltenbrunner sword on this site or GDC? I would like to read about it and the names involved. The people I know as dependable would never touch this sword, it is horrible!!!
And yes, there are 50 year collections that are full of crap! This is an intricate hobby that has become extremely technical.
Bob

[Frogprince]

Now a statement like this implies I had something to do with this Kaltenbrunner swords sale. This very well may result in a law suit against you. I have several attorneys on retainer being in real estate. I am fully aware I would have to hire an attorney in your area to file against you. You better publicly post all information you have to support I had something to do with this swords sale. Or publicly apologize and make it known you were speaking rubbish.
Bob

Bob, He is not, repeat not one of the names that I remember. So it could be you that has to make an apology. FP