New Poll: The "French-made" KM badges are...

[Norm F]

Here's a comparison of a "classic" 1st generation CA badge and a crude 2nd generation version. In this case it does seem like the 2nd generation is a casting of the first, judging by the soft raised outline around the hinge. Furthermore there are what seem to be three injection molding ports visible at the bottom.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here are two Destroyers. The first shows obvious casting defects including a large defect in the eagle's chest under the finish, and yet it has obverse gilding that looks very much like the 1st generation badges. The second looks a typical 1st generation badge that has been "personalized" with a "K" but shows the main pin of the 2nd generation castings.

Like the U-Boat, it's these badges with hybrid "crossover" features that are of concern.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Like the U-Boat, it's these badges with hybrid "crossover" features that are of concern.

Best regards,
---Norm

And here are two s-boots showing the same finish. First one is confirmed 2nd generation obvious postwar cast fake while the other is a classic 1st generation French-made s-boot also fully cast including the hardware but perfectly acceptable as official wartime original by almost 20% of voters according to the poll at the moment... how come?
Cheers,
Hubert

[BubbaZ]

It is truth that 1st generation odd carton boxes look better than 2nd generation childish celophanes but it does not make wartime originals out of them
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

And as mentioned in past threads, that Bacqueville cellophane envelope is post-1972 when 5-digit postal codes were introduced in France.

Best regards,
—-Norm

[billbert]

The badge posted in 108 LOWER is the style Eboat badge I referred to....Billbert

[upbeek]

The badge posted in 108 LOWER is the style Eboat badge I referred to....Billbert

Dear Billbert,
In post 88 I asked you what year you received the badge? You didn’t answer?

[BubbaZ]

Dear Billbert,
In post 88 I asked you what year you received the badge? You didn’t answer?

Hi Chay,
From what Billbert already said I understand that he got the CAB in early 70' since he started collecting in late 60', and he propably sold it in the 80'.

At the times when there was no reference books, no forums and the common knowledge about what is original and fake was very limited, Billbert based on most likely black and white photo of an unmarked CAB in the Manion's auction catalogue figured out that his CAB is the same and now at least 30 years from then, whithout having any photos, he still remembers that it was of French-made style and what is more important that it was definately the 1st generation and not the 2nd generation.

Billbert, correct me if I got something wrong.

Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Dear Billbert,
In post 88 I asked you what year you received the badge? You didn’t answer?

Hi Chay,

The question of year of receipt was first asked back in post #45, and was partially answered by Billbert later in post #84 when he reported that he was gifted 4 items from the veteran over a period of time and the first item was in 1965. We don’t know what year after that the S-Boat badge (not CAB) was given and it’s perhaps a tall order to ask someone to remember precisely over 40 years later.

I don’t think Billbert wants to be dragged further into this discussion so we should leave it at that. One can just add it to the other similar anecdotes which are interesting but still fall short of proving wartime provenence.

Interestingly, with 85 votes so far, despite the forensic evidence, about 30% still lean towards wartime production vs. 60% convinced by the science that they are reproductions, with almost 10% undecided. At 3188 hits, that’s a little less than 3% of the viewings of the thread. An interesting overview and we’ll see how it evolves over time.

Best regards,
—-Norm

[billbert]

I will only add that when I received it has no bearing since a GI brought it home in 1945...You are welcome to view what I’ve told you as complete BS..I’m sorry I still don’t have it to show you..both my very good friend and his veteran father are deceased..The Veterans whom acquired these items was a Quaker family background...I’m sure if he course to he could have qualified as a religious non combatants status...but being a young American stood up a did what so many of his friends and countrymen did answering THE CALL...As far as him being given this item or acquiring it later...He’d laugh right in your face...Never would he have an Interest...I doubt even his coworkers knew he was a Purple Heart D day veteran tanker... before he gave me these trinkets...I lent him my time life series WW2 book and the Invasion..His son earmarked a foto of 3 Gis in England before the invasion..he stated he knew all 3...and I think 2 of them died during the Normandy campaign...Wish I could convey more..not here to sway opinion...just relaying a small encounter from my 51 years of collecting ...best Regards..
Billbert

[upbeek]

Hi Chay,

The question of year of receipt was first asked back in post #45, and was partially answered by Billbert later in post #84 when he reported that he was gifted 4 items from the veteran over a period of time and the first item was in 1965. We don’t know what year after that the S-Boat badge (not CAB) was given and it’s perhaps a tall order to ask someone to remember precisely over 40 years later.

I don’t think Billbert wants to be dragged further into this discussion so we should leave it at that. One can just add it to the other similar anecdotes which are interesting but still fall short of proving wartime provenence.

Interestingly, with 85 votes so far, despite the forensic evidence, about 30% still lean towards wartime production vs. 60% convinced by the science that they are reproductions, with almost 10% undecided. At 3188 hits, that’s a little less than 3% of the viewings of the thread. An interesting overview and we’ll see how it evolves over time.

Best regards,
—-Norm

Hi Norm
This whole (French made ) poll and the new data on these is fascinating!
I probably voted not original in the beginning poll by Frank and I have never wanted to own one perhaps something didn’t seem right so I never bought one.

Im now certain looking at the evidence of construction that these have no chance at all, the methods of construction just don’t make any sense.

Kind regards Chay

[TOULON44]

Hi,
Information from a Parisian collector who recovered these badges in the 60s. Bacqueville did not make these insignia but Mourgeon 4 rue du parc Royal Paris. Bacqueville distributed them!
Regards
Chris

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

fascinating to see all the Frenchs defending those factually proven fakes...
i need to apologize to all the (foreign) Skeptics that may read this topic.

Name of the "new patient zero" collector ? Proofs that what he said is "real" ?
No, there is nothing, because everything is fake... Just fantasy tales...
Gossip that can't be proven...

I'm sure believers will find us the grand-son of the medal maker who did those badges...
We need more of them ! C'mon, do your best !
In each "UFO wave", believers are able to find hundred if not thousand of testimonies.

And again, Mourgeon never made those badges !
This is insulting intelligence, stop that please !
Mourgeon was a very famous medal maker, with an incredible quality in their products !

No one can prove that Mourgeon did those badges, but in return we can legitimately think that Mourgeon never did such crapy badges, you just need to check their production which up to another level of quality.
Anyone can search "Mourgeon" on Google to see by itself.

All the Mourgeon badges are high quality products. Made by a medal maker, not by a crook in his barn.
I repeat myself : the Mourgeon paratrooper badge is the best looking of every single paratrooper badge done since the end of the war. And the Mourgeon model was done in the early post-war years.

It is easy to use the name of Mourgeon as the firm do not exist anymore !
"Dead people can't defend themselves".

Also people that are defending the fakes don't know nothing about how a badge is produced... If they did watch Jo videos, they would understand that not a single period firm could have made those fully casted fakes (including... pins !).

And i must point out that Dr. Klietmann never found any document about those badges when he published his first books after the war.

This is pretty pathetic. Very sad indeed to see such lack of skeptic mind and such a fanatism in promoting those fakes.

But i guess that money and "pride" is far more important... This is like the crooks on the local market that are fooling people with said free-range eggs that are caged-eggs instead.

"I saw the saucer, I saw the crash, and the dead alien bodies ! I swear !".

See You

Vince

PS : Billbert, sorry but your testimony has zero value (no offense but it is similar to the "testimony" of Coleman about the "Champagne rune" SS helmet).
No one can prove now that the badges you got are what you said. Testimony from dozen of years back, no picture... Really ? A judge will laugh out loud !
Proven facts against gossip...
Those crapy fake badges were done in the 70's, and the cherry on the cake, Johnson the "patient zero" is involved (confirmed that he fooled people with fake SS daggers and fake Croix de Guerre Légionnaire).

[John R.]

Please avoid using the word "lies" in a post.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi,
Information from a Parisian collector who recovered these badges in the 60s. Bacqueville did not make these insignia but Mourgeon 4 rue du parc Royal Paris. Bacqueville distributed them!
Regards
Chris

That was also confirmed years ago by a former member.