New Poll: The "French-made" KM badges are...

[billbert]

Gentleman...I Have NO DOG in this hunt..I AM NOT A POT STIRRER...I only convey these facts for your education or bemusement...
A co worker of mines father a wounded DDay veteran..GAVE me four items..
They were taken DURING THE WAR from a GERMAN POW on the CHANNEL ISLANDS..
A French made e boat badge...
A black wound badge..
A nice black equipment box with carry strap a lil bigger than a medics pouch..and a small brown pistol holster...
The badge has probably bin ripped from the Sailor as the pin assembly was missing..you could see it once resided there..there was definite ISSUE wear..not storage wear...
I foundits twin sister in AN OLD Manions catalog identified as French made..
There is ZERO POSSIBILITY this was procured after 1945..
Sadly I don’t believe I have any fotos..I sold or traded the badge many many years ago....
You Are Welcome...
Billbert
Ps you might notice my moniker..
THEY NEVER DID THAT....YEAH THEY DID..
It certainly applied In soft headgear which is were my main hobby focus has lain..it definitely applies here IMO..

[Norm F]

Thanks for the confirmation Billbert. Guess that's as close as we'll get to the year when the history was communicated to you?

The unique feature of your anecdote is that it is the one and only story to suggest such badges were ever actually issued or at least obtained by a sailor in wartime. Even if these were wartime produced, aside from your anecdote there has been no evidence they were ever actually awarded as opposed to just socked away since they were against regulation. They've appeared in the thousands but none are found in German vet's groupings nor in any period portraits, despite the fact that far rarer awards exist both in vet groupings and in photos.

I think that's what has everyone scratching their heads on that one.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The unique feature of your anecdote is that it is the one and only story to suggest such badges were ever actually issued or at least obtained by a sailor in wartime.

I take it back, there was one other anecdote from Christopher Ailsby of one from a POW camp at Ely Cambridgeshire mentioned here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...458#post659458

Very similar story (although not from the channel islands) so I wonder if that could be the same badge as your former S-Boat badge making the rounds?

Best regards,
---Norm

[swjXE]

Gentleman...I Have NO DOG in this hunt..I AM NOT A POT STIRRER...I only convey these facts for your education or bemusement...
A co worker of mines father a wounded DDay veteran..GAVE me four items..
They were taken DURING THE WAR from a GERMAN POW on the CHANNEL ISLANDS..
A French made e boat badge...
A black wound badge..
A nice black equipment box with carry strap a lil bigger than a medics pouch..and a small brown pistol holster...
The badge has probably bin ripped from the Sailor as the pin assembly was missing..you could see it once resided there..there was definite ISSUE wear..not storage wear...
With all due respedtI foundits twin sister in AN OLD Manions catalog identified as French made..
There is ZERO POSSIBILITY this was procured after 1945..
Sadly I don’t believe I have any fotos..I sold or traded the badge many many years ago....
You Are Welcome...
Billbert
Ps you might notice my moniker..
THEY NEVER DID THAT....YEAH THEY DID..
It certainly applied In soft headgear which is were my main hobby focus has lain..it definitely applies here IMO..

Bilbert,
With all due respect I don't doubt for one minute that you were given an E Boat badge with a missing pin, but with no documentation if you're willing to be honest with yourself that's all you can claim. Other wise you're just perpetuating what appears to be a myth. Your story does not convey any facts or provide any education.
What's the cardinal rule in this hobby? "Buy the item not the story".
Best regards,

[billbert]

And SADLY ONCE AGAIN I REPEAT....I was given one of these from a WW2 veteran who brought it home...It’s unique reverse made it identifiable as a French made one..If you’d like to categorize it as a MYTH is your pleasure and my bemusement..Billbert

[upbeek]

Billbert,
I believe what you are saying is true to your belief!
However the person who gave you the fake medal must have acquired it in the 1970s when it’s believed these things first appeared on the market,
When did you receive it what year approximately?

In the 1960s British militaria was starting being faked on a massive scale.
Kind regards Chay

[jmcm]

Back in the 60's you heard of British restrikes and now all of them are good!

[upbeek]

Back in the 60's you heard of British restrikes and now all of them are good!

Well yes they are to some but they can be identified with some expertise!
It’s certainly a bit more difficult than third Reich because the British stuff the original dies were used and also you get the complete fake as well.
Kind regards Chay

[billbert]

@upbeek..once again the badge was acquired no later than 1945 during the war..the DDaywounded WW2 Veteran took it from a POW..there is ZERO reason for an embellishment on his part..I’m sorry if you don’t care to believe what I’ve stated..again I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS HUNT..I’m just sharing pertinent information as any serious collector might..acquired my first item around 1965..also all 4 items were given to me as a gift ...Regards
Billbert

[muzrub]

I take it back, there was one other anecdote from Christopher Ailsby of one from a POW camp at Ely Cambridgeshire mentioned here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...458#post659458

Very similar story (although not from the channel islands) so I wonder if that could be the same badge as your former S-Boat badge making the rounds?

Best regards,
---Norm

A fascinating thread.

I maybe wrong and no offense is intended but hasn't Christopher Ailsby, been largely discredited by many collectors?

Btw I'm a firm believer in a firm established provenance and not placing trust in a story. In the end you're buying an item that should be able to stand on its own and not rely on a story.

Cheers.

[jmcm]

a lot of these badges for sale here freiwillige.militaria

[BubbaZ]

a lot of these badges for sale here freiwillige.militaria

Indeed, more than half of KM badges offered by this French dealer are French-made (9/16). If we go through various dealer sites on the internet one can get the impression that this 'French maker' was the biggest maker of KM war badges... It does not apply to 'top ten' dealers though.
Cheers,
Hubert

[upbeek]

@upbeek..once again the badge was acquired no later than 1945 during the war..the DDaywounded WW2 Veteran took it from a POW..there is ZERO reason for an embellishment on his part..I’m sorry if you don’t care to believe what I’ve stated..again I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS HUNT..I’m just sharing pertinent information as any serious collector might..acquired my first item around 1965..also all 4 items were given to me as a gift ...Regards
Billbert

Bilbert,
I merely wanted to know the approximate YEAR the veteran gave you the Badge .
Kind regards Chay

[TOULON44]

Hi,
Hermann Historica, Weitze, Regimentals and Oakleaf sell French-made badges and are not small merchants.
Chris

[BubbaZ]

Hi,
Hermann Historica, Weitze, Regimentals and Oakleaf sell French-made badges and are not small merchants.
Chris

Well, they also offer known fakes from time to time, which is very hard to avoid when you buy and sell so many items every week.

Weitze at this moment offers 208 KM badges and only 3 are of French-made type (u-boat, cab and s-boot), one of them (u-boat) is obvious later fake of French-made u-boat. 3/208 (Weitze) is something different than 9/16 (freiwillige.militaria) or 6/12 (royal-dragons) and this is what I wanted to say.
Cheers,
Hubert