New Poll: The "French-made" KM badges are...

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi Chay, I got this badge from Bill Shea owner of the Ruptured Duck with his life time guarantee or your money back, according to Bill it is pre May 1945. I have no idea and my return it. Thanks for your insight. Ralph

Here is an idea! Call up Mr. Shea and ask him why he is certain it is a good one! Maybe he has information that is helpful. I can’t imagine he gives a guarantee for his company’s life just based on feelings, or?

Dietrich

[Ralph Arndt]

I have known Bill Shea forever, on my next purchase I will just use it as part of my payment, I am to old to stir the pot especially on a 30 plus year friendship.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Impressive list of accomplishments, including Hollywood!
Unfortunately nothing substantial about war badges and/or the French one in particular.
I understand your stance! Get your $495.- back. Maybe somebody else can ask about his knowledge about the French badge(s)? Well, it could also be a dead end...

[Ralph Arndt]

How about this one, also French made by Baqueville. Thanks for any opinions. Now I'm done. I have no more.

[upbeek]

Ralph,
Sorry not good either, it’s really poorly cast , the worst manufacturing!
Kind regards Chay

[TOULON44]

Hi Ralph,
Unfortunately no French companies had the right to choose whether or not to work for the Germans, it was an obligation!
Chris

[scotty1418]

Impressive list of accomplishments, including Hollywood!
Unfortunately nothing substantial about war badges and/or the French one in particular.
I understand your stance! Get your $495.- back. Maybe somebody else can ask about his knowledge about the French badge(s)? Well, it could also be a dead end...

I'd agree..It comes across as rather weak to me to spend a page listing accomplishments (though I do love The Rocketeer!) without really saying much about the piece being authenticated...

[Norm F]

How about this one, also French made by Baqueville. Thanks for any opinions. Now I'm done. I have no more.

Hi Ralph,

Your Destroyer, like your S-Boat, is a typical example of the French-made badges which have always been controversial — hence the original poll of 2004.

If you’ve reviewed the past and present threads, you’ll see that recently it’s been established microscopically that all of these are produced by somewhat crude casting in a porous mold, as are the main pins, and yet they bear features macroscopically that seem to mimic die-struck methods. That fact has convinced many that they were produced post-war, since the mimicry of die-struck features is hard to explain away.

However, the anecdotal support persists such that some will continue to subscribe to the belief of wartime production, as this poll illustrates. It’s still up the individual collector to decide what they’re happy with based upon the evidence, old and new.

I don’t doubt that dealer responses will be variable. A good dealer with a business lifetime warranty may be expected to honour a customer’s discontent and allow for exchange or refund, but is not legally obligated to do so. Given the differing opinions and persistence of believers, some may take the stance that refunds are not required, and there is no recourse in that situation. Really it boils down to a test of character.

There have always been well-discussed controversies about these badges so all current owners have always assumed a degree of risk, COAs notwithstanding. The shifting probability towards post-war production doesn’t really change the market that much.

Having said all that, I don’t want this polling thread to veer off into a shaming thread against dealers. The KM badge forum will stick to discussing the badges themselves and their origins.

Best regards,
—-Norm

[pln0226]

I have written to Ralph A. regarding the badge in question and told him to return it for either a credit or a full refund. We always want our customers to be completely satisfied with their purchase. My father has been involved in this hobby for nearly 60 years. He is tremendously passionate and truly loves it, even after all of these years. Obviously he would NEVER sell any item with the knowledge that it is of post war manufacture. Why would he? Anyone who knows him would know better. We appreciate the positive comments, support and friendship of our customers. Thank you to this forum and to the moderators for helping to make positive improvements to the hobby.....Patrick for Dad (Bill)

p.s. Norm, if this reply is inappropriate for this post, please delete or move to the appropriate location...thank you.

[jmcm]

Bill and Patrick always does the right thing

[Ralph Arndt]

I received a letter almost immediately from the Ruptured Duck Military for a full refund, I have bought some of the finest military items in my collection from Bill and Patrick over the years and will continue to do so. I don't care who you are sometimes mistakes are made, especially with these so called French Naval Badges. Ralph Arndt

[billbert]

@Norm...sorry for the late reply.The badge I was given was from the Vet himself..he’d helped himself to it from a prisoner on the Channel Islands ..I vividly recall the non German finish of the reverse so crudely Done..found its twin sister in the manionsfoxhole catalog with described as of French origin..believe me I have no reason to pull anyone’s leg..just letting you know one came back in the summer of 1945..DIRECT VET ACQUISITION..wish I still had it to show you..but sold it LONG AGO..mostly a headgear collector..
Hope this helps
Billbert

[Norm F]

Thanks Billbert, good to know. For completeness, could you say approximately what year that was that he gave it to you?

Best regards,
—-Norm

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

@Norm...sorry for the late reply.The badge I was given was from the Vet himself..he’d helped himself to it from a prisoner on the Channel Islands ..I vividly recall the non German finish of the reverse so crudely Done..found its twin sister in the manionsfoxhole catalog with described as of French origin..believe me I have no reason to pull anyone’s leg..just letting you know one came back in the summer of 1945..DIRECT VET ACQUISITION..wish I still had it to show you..but sold it LONG AGO..mostly a headgear collector..
Hope this helps Billbert

Billbert, did you keep pictures of your badge ?
When did you got it and sold it ?
Do you think that you may trace down the badge and the current owner ?
Do you also remember from which Manions catalogue you did see it ?
The pics on Manions catalogue are that good to identify such a distinctive model ?
Knowing that unmarked models of KM badges exist, and the most important fact, the very distinctive pin that could be used to identify the Fakeville is missing...
Couldn't it be just an unmarked unknown badge ?

I'm not questioning your honesty, but the fact that after all those years i find it hard to remember anything about some stuff i bought and sold myself...
Bob Coleman is "sure" that he got a real (sic) Champagne rune helmet in 1961.
And many dealers told unbelievable stories of "similar smocks to the pinkie ones" found in almost every single movie/museum of ex-CCCP.

See You

Vince

[swjXE]

@Norm...sorry for the late reply.The badge I was given was from the Vet himself..he’d helped himself to it from a prisoner on the Channel Islands ..I vividly recall the non German finish of the reverse so crudely Done..found its twin sister in the manionsfoxhole catalog with described as of French origin..believe me I have no reason to pull anyone’s leg..just letting you know one came back in the summer of 1945..DIRECT VET ACQUISITION..wish I still had it to show you..but sold it LONG AGO..mostly a headgear collector..
Hope this helps
Billbert

Bilbert,
I read your story and actually hoped for a minute that your story may truly help to authenticate these badges, but the more I thought about it I realized that this story has to be classified in the same category with all of the other hearsay evidence. I'm not questioning anyone's honesty, I just tend to believe in the fallibility of the human memory. I have to agree with Vince that there are many details missing in your story.