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**RobertE** · 04-16-2016, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

That is a Bingo Ben.

nails in the lid of the coffin,

Chris

I agree the two shown below (cover and cap) were made by the same hand, and are replicas.

Back to the original thread title: does anyone know for a fact that Lorenzo:

1) Actually manufactured these caps?

2) Wittingly sold fake caps as real ones?

Reading Lorenzo's statement from the 2006 thread, he says his opinion changed on the cap as he learned more, which most all of us can say about at least one item in our collection. It's possible to sell or trade a bad item, then find out it's bad (or good!).

Is Lorenzo the mastermind behind the fake covers, or just one of many involved in pushing fakes thought to be good to the masses?

regards, Robert

s/f Robert

**Massimo F.** · 04-16-2016, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by djpool View Post

I guess if your willing to spend 8k on a crap cover, 5k for a piece of garbage is a real bargain.

The best post so far LMAO

**jacquesf** · 04-16-2016, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by RobertE View Post

I agree the two shown below (cover and cap) were made by the same hand, and are replicas.

Back to the original thread title: does anyone know for a fact that Lorenzo:

1) Actually manufactured these caps?

2) Wittingly sold fake caps as real ones?

Reading Lorenzo's statement from the 2006 thread, he says his opinion changed on the cap as he learned more, which most all of us can say about at least one item in our collection. It's possible to sell or trade a bad item, then find out it's bad (or good!).

Is Lorenzo the mastermind behind the fake covers, or just one of many involved in pushing fakes thought to be good to the masses?

regards, Robert

s/f Robert

Robert, honestly do you have difficulty reading or comprehending? J

**90th Light** · 04-16-2016, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by RobertE View Post

I agree the two shown below (cover and cap) were made by the same hand, and are replicas.

Back to the original thread title: does anyone know for a fact that Lorenzo:

1) Actually manufactured these caps?

2) Wittingly sold fake caps as real ones?

Reading Lorenzo's statement from the 2006 thread, he says his opinion changed on the cap as he learned more, which most all of us can say about at least one item in our collection. It's possible to sell or trade a bad item, then find out it's bad (or good!).

Is Lorenzo the mastermind behind the fake covers, or just one of many involved in pushing fakes thought to be good to the masses?

regards, Robert

s/f Robert

Hello Robert

In post number 108, I commented that some where saying Lorenzo was the "fall-guy". The tip of an iceberg but is he the center of the web ? Either way or regardless of how one sees it, he is involved, caught and covering his tracks.

Does he deserve the tar and feathers he is now getting ? Those who have paid several thousand Euro for a fake worth less than a hundred Euro can answer that.

And in the bigger picture, what does an orchestrated scheme of fakes like this cost all who collect this stuff, now and further down the track ?

The damage it does putting people off collecting verses the fact that the real ones just got a whole lot rarer,

Chris

p.s. I do not think his books will be taken seriously and it will be interesting to see how well they sell.

**90th Light** · 04-16-2016, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by dragnet View Post

Its a shame the thread that Ben pointed out did not continue with open discussion as this whole saga might well have been detected years before

Very true, the danger of not prosecuting or pressing charges at the time.

However, in the world of crime all the way up to murder, the books are full of such cases.

They get away to sin another day,

Chris

**jacquesf** · 04-16-2016, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

Hello Robert

In post number 108, .............

And in the bigger picture, what does an orchestrated scheme of fakes like this cost all who collect this stuff, now and further down the track ?

The damage it does putting people off collecting verses the fact that the real ones just got a whole lot rarer,

Chris

I have reached a point, thanx to the fakers, the greed and the people continuously and mindlessly debating , justifying and ignoring all evidence, trying to create doubt, where I am losing interest in this hobby or at least the public participation part of it. I am not talking about people that do the research and and having constructive discussion to further the hobby.

These (I call them the fakers friend) are the worst part of this hobby. OK maybe not worst, but definitely most annoying. J

**BenVK** · 04-16-2016, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by RobertE View Post

Reading Lorenzo's statement from the 2006 thread, he says his opinion changed on the cap as he learned more, which most all of us can say about at least one item in our collection. It's possible to sell or trade a bad item, then find out it's bad (or good!).

Robert, if you go and read a few old threads from around this period, Lorenzo was posting photos of his collection of camo and he had literally dozens and dozens of smocks, trousers etc etc. He also publicly stated that he'd been collecting camo for at least 30 years and that he'd started when he was 10 years old!

Does that sound like someone who would unwittingly sell not one or two but numerous dubious camo items? Not only that but he then conveniently "forgets" that he ever sold those items.

Personally, I've been studying camo for about a week so I know bugger all basically but even I can see that a lot of the stuff that he sold i.e. covers and caps shown in this thread, look highly suspicious to me.

Originally posted by RobertE View Post

Is Lorenzo the mastermind behind the fake covers, or just one of many involved in pushing fakes thought to be good to the masses?

In fairness, I doubt very much that he is the mastermind. Like Chris, I'm inclined to think that he was just one in a long line within the community trying to make a quick buck out of these things. I'm sure all the other culprits are laughing their heads off knowing that he's being made the scapegoat.

If original helmet covers cost just a few hundred dollars each, none of this would really matter. I was truly shocked to learn that one SS cover costs as much if not more than an SS visor cap! (and even they are seriously overpriced!)

You guys must be crazy paying this much for some fabric and alloy clips sewn together! lol

**RobertE** · 04-16-2016, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

Robert, honestly do you have difficulty reading or comprehending? J

Jacques, you're above this type of comment. Please save this type rudeness for a PM, if you really have a desire to find out my mental abilities.

This thread, and the others, have more switchbacks than a mountain road and are loaded with fact-like statements, facts, and strongly held opinions.

My question has not been answered, but I'm done asking it. I know Lorenzo sold lots of uniform items; many of them have been described by collectors as being good originals - sounds like a typical big dealer to me. Some, but not all, are replica. Good medals, but lousy daggers, good helmets, but fake cloth headgear...

Ben touches on it below using logic to form an opinion - but that's as close to an answer as we're apparently going to get in this thread. I guess that makes me a fakers' friend.

s/f Robert

**90th Light** · 04-16-2016, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

I have reached a point, thanx to the fakers, the greed and the people continuously and mindlessly debating , justifying and ignoring all evidence, trying to create doubt, where I am losing interest in this hobby or at least the public participation part of it. I am not talking about people that do the research and and having constructive discussion to further the hobby.

These (I call them the fakers friend) are the worst part of this hobby. OK maybe not worst, but definitely most annoying. J

The great thing about freedom, is people can enter or leave something as they choose (the concept of "Perfect Competition") .

In marketing and politics, they say that there is no such thing as bad publicity. It is all about keeping something alive and in the public eye. The negative can serve this purpose equally along side the good. Taboo always brings fascination.

Will all people stop collecting SS camo because of this ? Hell no. Those with big wallets will only become bloody minded to pay even more for the few real items that do exist. Sadly as in all things on this planet, the weak and feeble will suffer, fall by the roadside and even perish.

Every item we collect deserves a fair, explained hearing. In the case of Lorenzos SS camo covers, this has happened here on WAF.

I have learnt the hard way to be weary of those who are so noble or just blindly accept without question.

At the end of the day in most matters of life and history, those who have questioned have usually deserved thanks rather than contempt,

Chris

**BenVK** · 04-16-2016, 03:00 PM

This kinda of reminds me of that Dentist who shot the Cecil the lion.

The story went viral and so has his one about Lorenzo!

Neither are the true villain but we all love a good crucifixion don't we!

**kammo man** · 04-16-2016, 03:25 PM

Lorenzo is the true hero if this story.
He made and peddled covers-caps-tunics and was found out due to his greed.
Plain and simple.

**Disco Partisan** · 04-16-2016, 03:46 PM

These two covers with the white stitching (that you posted below) have never been sold by Lorenzo. In fact, no one ever said that they came from Lorenzo, even their owner Francesco. Note that these two are the only covers that are (as we know today) not original because all other helmet covers in this thread including the one with a black tape (that started this thread) and two Plane Tree (that were offered to "horsetrainer") are all very different from these two and IMO have no issues whatsoever.
There is nothing that links these two covers to Lorenzo - only your statement that Lorenzo offered you very similar covers at the SOS-2009, and that fact you never backed up with anything. You also mysteriously "forgot" to bring this fact up into your first thread against Lorenzo even after you were prompted by a mod for any argument

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

Here's a Lorenzo cover that Francisco showed on GHW
It's a classic fake and they type shown to me by Lorenzo in person
You can easily see the stitching is wrong and that is made from a used zelt

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

Just so no one forgets.....
Here is a typical Lorenzo fake helmet cover.

**Disco Partisan** · 04-16-2016, 04:06 PM

But here we have a cap with the "white stitchings" that Lorenzo sold more than ten years ago to somebody and then 10 years it was Lorenzo who first identified this cap as a fake in this thread

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=152653

Don't you guys find it a bit quite strange for a "faker" to not recognize his "own work-creation" (camo cap) and then reveal that it is fake? that absurd would never happen in the real world

Post#11:

Originally posted by Lorenz View Post

Hi Eddie,
IMO the cap is a reproduction and not very good, the problem arent the air vent present or not, but IMO the construction it isnt a correct wartime construction.
The majority of the fake camouflage caps are reconstructed watching the exemples in the pictures on the Beaver book, but if you have some original caps in hand you can notice some details that make the difference from an original caps and a fake cap.
Save your money!
If you are interesting in more info contact me:
lorenzosilv@hotmail.com
BY Lorenzo

IMO Lorenzo sold it in good faith that this cap was original. Back then everyone thought it would be original.

**BenVK** · 04-16-2016, 04:38 PM

Disco, you're a broken record, saying the same thing over and over again.

I'm done here.

**Disco Partisan** · 04-16-2016, 04:51 PM

Ben I like the precision, accuracy and clarity.
Like in math 2+2=4
And in this thread it is all like this 4=..?..+?...?.+..-.?...
Perhaps I sound like a broken record but only because dj is deaf

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Camo coming from Lorenzo - Helmet cover

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