Announcement

**Disco Partisan** · 04-15-2016, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post

This is completely relevant in this matter.

Do you think his expulsion was just a hasty decision made by one moderator alone?

I just want to learn what happened really as it puzzles me and all what I see is this:
Lorenz was a member here for over 11 years (since 2004). During these years, WAF members bought and traded many items from him with not a single issue or problem. Four months ago Lorenzo has been expelled as a "faker" with no evidences presented to the community. "Kammo man" who initiated all this and claimed each and every helmet covers coming from Lorenzo to be fake just demonstrated in this very thread that he is not an expert at all. In fact "kammo man" does not even know that original helmet covers are made of a regular zeltbahn material, which means all covers of that material would be fake in his opinion too. "Kammo man"'s friend "horsetrainer" who testified against Lorenzo has also been clearly exposed as a lier in this case against Lorenzo. And Each and every other "fact" about Lorenzo has never been backed up with any evidence - not a single one. All in all Lorenzo accusations just look baseless from here.. Unless you know something that has not been revealed to us yet

**FrenchVolunteer** · 04-15-2016, 09:46 AM

Hi,

many thanks Willi for your very detailed "how-to-do" manual used by fakers.
I think that a pinned topic should be done with all the tricks that are used by people who want to trick collectors.
This is quite fascinating.

And thanks Gisle for your additional replies and comments.
So did the price remained "the same", or did the price increase over the sales ?

See You

Vince

**jacquesf** · 04-15-2016, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Disco Partisan View Post

I just want to learn what happened really as it puzzles me and all what I see is this:
................. All in all Lorenzo accusations just look baseless from here.. Unless you know something that has not been revealed to us yet

You are one off a very small number that think it is baseless. On the forum and outside of it the fakes sold by Lorenz has become an established fact. No amount of making noise or creating a noise fog on here will change that. It only starts to reflect badly on you.

The way the defense of these camo has unfolded in this thread is textbook classic of what happens when fakes/fakers get exposed. It happened recently with the champagne decals, and a whole lot more. Nothing new in that, just more tiring. Read Willi's post he put it perfectly. J

**Disco Partisan** · 04-15-2016, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

You are one off a very small number that think it is baseless. On the forum and outside of it the fakes sold by Lorenz has become an established fact. No amount of making noise or creating a noise fog on here will change that. It only starts to reflect badly on you.

The way the defense of these camo has unfolded in this thread is textbook classic of what happens when fakes/fakers get exposed. It happened recently with the champagne decals, and a whole lot more. Nothing new in that, just more tiring. Read Willi's post he put it perfectly. J

i am in minority because I am the only one here who knows Lorenzo personally for many years and very well and while being very, very suspicious by nature all my life I have not noticed a hint to suspect any dishonesty in him

**leib1** · 04-15-2016, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post

Hi,

many thanks Willi for your very detailed "how-to-do" manual used by fakers.
I think that a pinned topic should be done with all the tricks that are used by people who want to trick collectors.
This is quite fascinating.

See You

Vince

Agree with you on the above Vince
Disco
You are the only one that defends him,surly if he is so well known people would come on here post there good buys and shoot Owen down in flames ? I think you live in a Lorenzo fantasy world and I'll give is books a wide berth !!

**Massimo F.** · 04-15-2016, 11:06 AM

with all this fake camo stuff that was churned out in large quantities for several years, why did it take so long for Lorenz to be exposed?

Same goes for the Champagne Rune decal thing why did it take so long?

I'm inclined to think that several dealers knew or at least had doubts but didn't think twice to unload questionable items on unsuspecting collectors with less experience than Owen to recover their money....

I remember several years ago a lot of camo covers being posted by Italian member Francesco that were deemed fake, were those sold to him directly by Lorenz or came in his possession through other collectors?

**jacquesf** · 04-15-2016, 11:29 AM

"quote: .......
I'm inclined to think that several dealers knew or at least had doubts but didn't think twice to unload questionable items on unsuspecting collectors with less experience than Owen to recover their money...."

I would say that you are 100% correct. Most of these scams are intricately and professionally put together. Involving the maker, distributors, marketers, fan club etc. Another classic example are the Witt group, put together by a top dealer and Witts son. Some of Deetlevs shenanigans spring to mind. It is all over the show.

I got nailed the hardest by the nicest and respected guys and collector friends. It takes some brave collectors to expose these. J

**17thairborne** · 04-15-2016, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

"quote: .......
I'm inclined to think that several dealers knew or at least had doubts but didn't think twice to unload questionable items on unsuspecting collectors with less experience than Owen to recover their money...."

I would say that you are 100% correct. Most of these scams are intricately and professionally put together. Involving the maker, distributors, marketers, fan club etc. Another classic example are the Witt group, put together by a top dealer and Witts son. Some of Deetlevs shenanigans spring to mind. It is all over the show.

I got nailed the hardest by the nicest and respected guys and collector friends. It takes some brave collectors to expose these. J

**Ian Hulley** · 04-15-2016, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Massimo F. View Post

I'm inclined to think that several dealers knew or at least had doubts

That is indeed the case, certainly amongst some UK dealers.

Originally posted by Massimo F. View Post

I remember several years ago a lot of camo covers being posted by Italian member Francesco that were deemed fake, were those sold to him directly by Lorenz or came in his possession through other collectors?

Yes, the first ripples of suspicion on this forum started then (Disco wouldn't remember that as he didn't exist then of course

)

Ian

**Mike C** · 04-15-2016, 11:56 AM

And amongst some US dealers at least five years ago...

Mike

**kammo man** · 04-15-2016, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Disco Partisan View Post

i am in minority because I am the only one here who knows Lorenzo personally for many years and very well and while being very, very suspicious by nature all my life I have not noticed a hint to suspect any dishonesty in him

And that makes you a perfect fog horn for Lorenzo

**leib1** · 04-15-2016, 12:22 PM

Ian
do you know if flatken had any of Lorenzo's stuff ?

**kammo man** · 04-15-2016, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Ian Hulley View Post

That is indeed the case, certainly amongst some UK dealers.

Yes, the first ripples of suspicion on this forum started then (Disco wouldn't remember that as he didn't exist then of course

)

Ian

These are the same type of covers Lorenzo offered me in person at the SOS

**Daniel.S** · 04-15-2016, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Ian Hulley View Post

certainly amongst some UK dealers.

**17thairborne** · 04-15-2016, 12:35 PM

Disco,

Please look at the number of people who are certain that they purchased or hadled the fake covers. Without being emotional about it, can you honestly say that they are ALL lying about your friend?

It is honorable that you stick with him and defend him. I wish all my friends were as loyal to me as you are to Lorenzo. I simply ask you to think about all of these people, many different collectors from several countries, who are all convinced this has been a shyte deal.

At some point, you must address this mounting voice of criticism, not to Lorenzo, but to yourself. It is certainly admirable that you remain his friend. We all need such devotion, But, you are beginning to affect how most of the WAF community views you, not because of your loyalty to Lorenzo, but to you deafness to the details regarding the fake camo.

I rarely make suggestions, but in this case I must do so. To you I suggest you retain your loyalty to Lorenzo, but drop your fruitless effort to convince the majority of the WAF, that the covers are real. It serves no purpose. Everyone has already entered the camp that suits their purpose.

Let it go.....

it is finished, finito, fertig, done, erledigt, fin, законченный, പൂർത്തിയായി, ,完, تم الانتهاء من

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Camo coming from Lorenzo - Helmet cover

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