Heinz Macher and Fritz Witt grouping.

[John Pic]

Here is another...perfect no wear at all no age at all if you handle it you think you found the holy grail of jr. Officer tunics.

[markus]

Were the cyphers, insignias good?

[blitzkrieg gsd]

I

Theodor Wisch never received the oakleaves and swords physically. Probably due to hospitalisation which lasted from Sept. 1944 thru May 1945 and beyond. (Buy my book! LoL)

He did have a post-war KC, OL and Swords set though for reunions, etc.

The family told/wrote me that only the German Cross in Gold and a couple of other minor medals and badges were on the estate when their father passed (and the docs and photos of course)

The rest, visor caps, a travel box, dagger, officer sword, cased mint KC, cased mint OL, etc. were never in the group, yet were sold by Kai Wonkler separately as part of the 1997 estate auction or even afterwards as you can see from the doc shown above.

One family member living in the U.S. wrote me how Teddy used to show him his award documents, photo albums, etc. but no medals.

I guess Kai must have sold the above set around Eur 20,000 considering the market around that time.

Markus

blitzkrieg gsd....Im afraid it is already too late. Guys like this are already outted by collectors but other dealers and high end consultants will always maintain friendships with this type of person....it gets them what they need to have the glorious display tables at the edges of the show floors...The hobby went south in the 80s with the investment mentality...I like investment in something too and hope value appreciates on things..but it went overboard and thats what drives these people.

John I imagine you are rite I was just to young in them days to see it. But that make since forget the history get the money. And more of the dealers want to save money more then history. So here we are now but why can't we call them out in person? Why do we put up with them ripping off collectors and taking a chance on turning guys off to the hobby?

Can you give us some back ground on the tunics you showed us in last couple post. Did you yourself buy them from him before you knew better? If so did he give you a good story about them being 100% good? Just would like to know how he runs his scam. You know is he a good used car salesman or no questions answered he says it is what it is. Anyway sorry if he got you on them tunics they would have been nice if real. Thanks for showing them no one can say your not doing your part to expose these crooks. And I have learned a lot from this thread about what to look for when shopping for a tunic.

[John Pic]

The first one I posted I bought and when I received it noticed the slight shadow..I contacted him and he guaranteed it to be the way he found it..I accepted that. I liked the rare Belgian sleeve eagle, which in period photos can bee seen on a few DF officers tunics and beveled runic tab and they were "embedded" into the fabric so well, no signs of heer collar tabs so maybe a wartime re-tailor was my thought. I kept it for a while and then I consigned it to another dealer and it was gone very quickly. Im not big on returning items and I do not think I know everything I let others decide what they will. I also did quite a bit of research and found SS officers frequently wore tunics that had breast eagles on them at one time or another or late in the war transfered from Heer units.But knowing what I know now I would not trust a tunic like this.

The other one had all completely original insignias no eagle shadow at all but it was like brand new no wear no age ,everything perfectly real.... I sold it at a show. I bought it from Kai but a year before it was offered to me by Paul Jarvis.

I should have known better but when you want something and its right there .......the addiction. Im in recovery now

[John Pic]

Oh...and the shoulder boards on the second tunic shown...he had an entire selection of the same type boards on his old site...like I said he had all the parts at hand.

[blitzkrieg gsd]

John I know what you mean about getting what you want when it there to be got. I'm just glad you are on here to show us what to look for. My budget keeps me far away from SS stuff these days but I still want to know how to buy them. You never know I could win the lotto tomorrow and decide to buy me a few SS tunics. Without you guys showing us how to buy I would never think of buying one. A couple years ago I would have called a dealer and let them tell me what was good and what wasn't. Sure glad you guys showed me that's not a safe road to travel anymore if it ever was.

[rob NL]

Shame on you Rob, you cannot hit a guy like this. At best you can give him a slap with the open hand. What an unimpressive speciman. Jacques

Really, I did not hit him.
Btw, I prefer hitting someone with a open hand.
It will also knock somebody out, and you will not break your hand on his head

[John Pic]

You can always tell a pro...they know about how hard the head is.

[markus]

Just when you thought this thread was over....

Here a fake Waffen-SS officer's cap, that was originally sold by Kai Winkler as having come off the Th. Wisch estate (which it didn't as we know from the family).

Here it got sold again by Winkler's occational front/buddy Detlev Niemann who only a few years later bailed out of this business with a bag full of money...leaving only completely worthless "lifetime guarantees" behind....

[jacquesf]

Markus, the Detlev angle is no surprise. I have personally seen/ handled items, one a rebadged heer tunic that he (Detlev) sold as a original untouched ss officer tunic to a high end collector that spent a fortune with him and who was on a very friendly foot with him,Detlev. A blind man could see where the Heer eagle was. The point is, he had no problems ripping of his best customers /friends. Jacques

[John Pic]

None of them seem to have a problem with this..I once had a dream of opening a small Military Antique store and bookshop...would I have become this??? What a shame.

[jacquesf]

[QUOTE=John Pic;.I once had a dream of opening a small Military Antique store and bookshop...would I have become this??? What a shame.[/QUOTE]

John I had the same dream and when I woke up the bed was wet. Jacques

[Dmv]

Again, the only question I have:

Why isn't he (or they) banned from WAF???
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/member.php?u=572

Members get expelled for a lot, a WHOLE lot less then all this fraud...

Next to bringing it in the light, like this thread, that's the only thing "WAF"(as a website) can do...

[John Pic]

lol...yeah. Same one. When I started collecting in the early 70s it was tough...lots of reproductions all over the place but tunics were not too difficult to detect the bad. I did well in the 80s...but then this phenomenon took over the investors and high end fake SS stuff..frustrating quit for awhile...even worse when
I got back in this time about 15 years ago now the tunics were very good and prices were driven through the rooftop...the idea of a place to go sit and browse through books,study,have a cup of coffee,check out some good militaria was out of reach...so now look where we are. Do I trust any tunic anymore? Even heer tunics bought from this crowd are suspect...

[John Pic]

DMV because he hasnt done anything to violate the forum rules on the forum...his business is strictly off the forum..just don't buy from him thats what will send the message...