Heinz Macher and Fritz Witt grouping.

[Bob Hritz]

This reminds me of all the Knight's Crosses with attribution given by a dealer's letter. I am surprised that the medal collectors do not wonder how much truth is behind the attributions. I guess wanting to believe is a stronger impulse than wanting to have real proof.

Bob Hritz

[LRRPS]

This reminds me of all the Knight's Crosses with attribution given by a dealer's letter. I am surprised that the medal collectors do not wonder how much truth is behind the attributions. I guess wanting to believe is a stronger impulse than wanting to have real proof.

Bob Hritz

Agree Bob, but false attribution is not limited to dealers. Collectors do this too.

[John Pic]

Just having a real KC attributed or not would be enough for me..

[Max Wünsche]

Could not agree more!

Just having a real KC attributed or not would be enough for me..

[Dr. Strangelove]

This reminds me of all the Knight's Crosses with attribution given by a dealer's letter. I am surprised that the medal collectors do not wonder how much truth is behind the attributions. I guess wanting to believe is a stronger impulse than wanting to have real proof.

Bob Hritz

Some people want to live in their own version of reality. I learned long ago not to disturb them.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Oh really??

I learned long ago not to disturb them.

Maybe of late . . . but I would have to say, "au contraire mon ami" . . . as there once was a time . . . not so long ago . . . albeit, a time now so oblique . . . that you were one of the best . . .


And for the record, I'm real tired of all the forgery . . . including that of which is spoken about here.

[Dr. Strangelove]

well...

Do you remember that Simon Guy with SS General Wraps and other assorted Hoo Haws? No convincing him, N&T was selling and he was buying. I will never forget that first horrific picture of his collection room.

[John Pic]

Yes in fact he is still a member on this forum and has read this thread a few times....it would be interesting to hear his story, Im sure more than a couple dealers had his number...I do not fault people for mistakes the tunics are very well done and some of the Winkler ones can fool the very best. My first encounter with a Sieder sleeve eagle was on a tunic I bought from N&T Global...the eagles are very well made for fakes and do not glow and it had been a few years since I handled a real one. When I received the tunic though I noticed it wasn't the same quality as a real eagle...at the time Paul Jarvis and Peter von Lukacs were just starting business and selling items on ebay...I saw an LAH tunic offered by Paul Jarvis withe the exact same type of eagle and rank pips as on my tunic...then I saw a Der Fuhrer tunic offered by Peter with the same exact type eagle and rank pips..I became suspicious of the insignia and returned the tunic getting blacklisted by Norbert Graetz for it and then I began to do more research and found many many many tunics with Sieder eagles and some more with the strange rank tabs..being offered by dealers mostly out of Europe except for N&T who was based here..tried to warn people on GDC but that just got me into trouble..then the HSC letter surfaced and the dealers slowly stopped offering one type of eagle but a new improved version surfaced and was quickly outted..it is of very high quality and I understand they came from Floch...anyway we have come a long way since.

[Max Wünsche]

How is this thread any less worthy of being pinned than the SS Dress Brooch?

Already up to page 28 and aside from a few of the usual suspects attempting to discredit / derail it, I think it has been very informative.

[blitzkrieg gsd]

This thread is important it shows how these crooks are putting these groups together and passing them off as originals. So I'm with you guys it should be pinned it mite save a new oil lector some money. These fakes do a lot of damage to our hobby believe it or not but it hurts us all. I almost stopped collecting TR stuff all together because of the fakes. Only because I'm such I die hard history and ww2 buff that I didn't. But there are a lot of guys who just don't want to deal with it who will never get involved in are hobby.

We should have a black list of bad dealers that's pinned in every section. A do not buy list for new collectors to use. Even us more seasoned guys could use it as we all know these guys keep getting better and better at there trade. So if we could black list them it mite save us all a lot of trouble down the road.

[jacquesf]

[QUOTE=Willi Z.;5385253]
"
The problem lies with our hobby in general. It is still the Wild West and not self-policed. You get a book published and you are an expert. Books are filled with fakes. Collections are filled with fakes. Respected people, once they earn a solid reputation, start selling fakes. There are also some of the most unscrupulous characters I have ever met involved in this hobby and many of us know who they are. Nothing gets done. I AM NOT directing any of these comments to this XRF process, or those involved in it! Please don't anyone try to go there. These are GENERAL comments about our hobby as a whole."

This is quote by Will Zahn, made in the helmet forum. I took the liberty to post it here. One of the best comments I have read on this forum. It should be pinned at the top of the WAF and made compulsary reading. Jacques

[Ian Hulley]

We should have a black list of bad dealers that's pinned in every section. A do not buy list for new collectors to use.

But then who would sponsor the forums ... either overtly or otherwise ?

Ian

[PBR]

[QUOTE=jacquesf;5385890]

"
The problem lies with our hobby in general. It is still the Wild West and not self-policed. You get a book published and you are an expert. Books are filled with fakes. Collections are filled with fakes. Respected people, once they earn a solid reputation, start selling fakes. There are also some of the most unscrupulous characters I have ever met involved in this hobby and many of us know who they are. Nothing gets done. I AM NOT directing any of these comments to this XRF process, or those involved in it! Please don't anyone try to go there. These are GENERAL comments about our hobby as a whole."

This is quote by Will Zahn, made in the helmet forum. I took the liberty to post it here. One of the best comments I have read on this forum. It should be pinned at the top of the WAF and made compulsary reading. Jacques

Unfortunately, he is pretty right.
The amount of scumbags and thugs I've met during my collecting life in the militaria market is not comparable to any other collecting market, not even the Art one.
Don't know what's going on here, but there must be something seriously wrong with the military objects, some sort of "curse" which infects the owners of them.
It may be related to the nasty things such objects had witnessed during the war, I don't know, but that's strange for sure.

[Spanish Freiwillige]

I think this thread is getting a lot of great statements that will take the blind fold from a lot of people. Although the problem with the group in question has happend so many times in the past, and most unfortunatelly it will happen in the future, this case exemplifies a bitter truth of the hobby.....

[Robert T.]

"Nothing gets done..."

It could be that the general public feels that people buying and selling TR items are "deranged" and deserved each other...

Robert