Heinz Macher and Fritz Witt grouping.

[Spanish Freiwillige]

There is no interest in authorities to regulate this...

this will stop the day that one of this scumbags gets prosecuted for fraud and gets put behind bars

if there was a regulation that imposed severe fines or jail time to anybody that sells fakes, believe me we would see less SOB trying to push the envelope!!

The problem is to establish an interest or necessity for the authorities to regulate and then a system with uncorruptable experts that will for legal purposes distinguish original form fake....

[John Pic]

It will stop when the monetary gain is minimal...when collecting is just out of interest and not possible future profit.

I have an old collection of action figures from my younger years..their value has appreciated minimally but the interest in them has never died and I could sell them overnight no problem and get what I paid and a little extra.I keep them because I like them and when I die they will go they might even be given away for anyone to enjoy whoever or wherever...thats a hobby. The investment mentality...the "conesuer" of antiquities mentality put upon war memorabilia has ruined the hobby period...just like the Art world it has become full of pretentious people..that the Artists( soldiers ) themselves would loathe...

[Ian Hulley]

this will stop the day that one of this scumbags gets prosecuted for fraud and gets put behind bars

if there was a regulation that imposed severe fines or jail time to anybody that sells fakes, believe me we would see less SOB trying to push the envelope!!

Yes, all very good BUT who is going to be the authority to say what is and more to the point what ISN'T original ? Remember most of these big German dealers issue the COA's the hobby relies on

Ian

[Max Wünsche]

The problem lies with our hobby in general. It is still the Wild West and not self-policed.

I think that says it all really.

The gun was law in the Wild West, and maybe thats what it will take...

Just a matter of time before one of them screws over the wrong person and ends up in a ditch.

[dave peifer]

i have been reading this thread with great interest and wanted to add that fakes have been in this hobby since i started back in the early 60s.one experience i will always remember is a dealer at a well established antiques mkt in pa,he dealt in jewlery precious metals and some militaria on the side.we would stop at his stand every sunday,he would say "look what i did this week"he would buy high quality period german pocket watches and engrave them with ah,hh,eb and the georing crest,probably others,to me they looked good and that was almost 50 years ago,how could you possibly tell,some even found their way into us groupings as bring backs, that lesson i have never forgotten and has helped guide me all these years.he would also engrave womens items with the eb monogram,i guess thats why i have always been so skeptical of anything in the hobby,which is a good thing.........dave

[Spanish Freiwillige]

It will stop when the monetary gain is minimal...when collecting is just out of interest and not possible future profit.

I have an old collection of action figures from my younger years..their value has appreciated minimally but the interest in them has never died and I could sell them overnight no problem and get what I paid and a little extra.I keep them because I like them and when I die they will go they might even be given away for anyone to enjoy whoever or wherever...thats a hobby. The investment mentality...the "conesuer" of antiquities mentality put upon war memorabilia has ruined the hobby period...just like the Art world it has become full of pretentious people..that the Artists( soldiers ) themselves would loathe...

I hear you...when I was a kid, Star War figures and toys were the big thing, kept most of them, never thought they would become collectibles, but I kept them not for collectible value, but because one day I thought my son would like them and indeed he does......

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Yes, all very good BUT who is going to be the authority to say what is and more to the point what ISN'T original ? Remember most of these big German dealers issue the COA's the hobby relies on

Ian

I agree that is the vice, but imagine if selling fakes of any kind would be perused by legal action in a court of law, and the court could rely on honest experts that would with scientific tests and expertise, like sometimes is done in the WAF, prove the item is a fake and then the dealer condemned to jail time and huge fines …

Man!!! That is what most of us wish would happen to crooks….

The problem is proving that it’s a fake!!

[TomH]

I think that says it all really.

The gun was law in the Wild West, and maybe thats what it will take...

Just a matter of time before one of them screws over the wrong person and ends up in a ditch.

This has already happened - I can't remember the details but I'm sure a German dealer sold some expensive fakes to wealthy Russian collector a few years ago and was severely admonished for doing so.

[Max Wünsche]

Yes I did read about that in another thread...

Karma is a bitch!


The unfortunate part being that I believe his wife was also killed and the house was torched with them in it.

This has already happened - I can't remember the details but I'm sure a German dealer sold some expensive fakes to wealthy Russian collector a few years ago and was severely admonished for doing so.

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Well, I would not go as far as killing the man for selling fakes..!!That seams more like a mafia revange rather than a legal solution to the crook dealer and selling of fake items.......

[Fritz]

This has already happened - I can't remember the details but I'm sure a German dealer sold some expensive fakes to wealthy Russian collector a few years ago and was severely admonished for doing so.

Hearsay and rumours.

In the end they found out that some guy (a young german) robbed and killed him. He knew the guy and no fake selling was the reason for that double murder. An ordinary case of murder with robbery...no russians, no fakes and no amber room.

[blitzkrieg gsd]

The day I get robbed on a SS tunic or dagger will be the day I plot my first murder. You guys may be rite instead of letting the cops handle it we should do it are selves. It will never work in the courts cause one guy will say real and the next fake. Can you imagine a jury sitting and trying to go off what expert testimony told them was real or fake and them making a call on it. Maybe we should have a board of collectors who would make the calls on who was good and who wasn't. Like the graders in the coin and and sports card hobbys. Something like that would be a step in the rite direction.

[DonC]

Gentlemen, we collect NAZI shiit. What prosecutor/jury is going to give two shiits if we got screwed on a fake?

Don

[blitzkrieg gsd]

Don very true but the facts remain the same it's a crime.

[DougB]

But then who would sponsor the forums ... either overtly or otherwise ?

Ian

You don't need sponsors Ian. Sponsorless means no ties that bind and butts to kiss.