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**Michael Fay** · 06-06-2009, 04:46 AM

Heraldry

Originally posted by J C Gray View Post

Returning to the plaque in question...Firstly let me start by saying categorically that this is not a 'Crest'! In Heraldry a crest applies only to a decoration that sits atop a Helm which is sitting atop the chief (the upper third) of the shield, or, as in this case, the helm actually becomes the crest in lieu of any further decoration. A crest is only a very small part of the whole Armorial Achievement and is not even officially part of the actual Coat of Arms.
The rules of Heraldry (contrary to what has been stated earlier in this thread) are basically the same throughout Europe, but the styles of coats of arms have developed in line with local artistic traditions. Apart from the Runic section in the Hußmann book 'Deutsche Wappenkunst' the basic information contained therein is more or less the same as in any other book on Heraldry which I have read. This plaque, of course, does seem to follow a different set of rules than can normally contributed to a coat of arms, so I think that the title of this thread probably describes the item most accurately as a 'Heraldic Plaque' or 'Heraldic Shield' and as we all know, the Nazis were not exactly averse to changing things to suit their own requirements.
To say that all things Heraldic are symbolic is purely subjective, as in a great many cases (if not most) Arms come into the 'Punning Heraldry' category as opposed to that of 'Cognate Heraldry'. That being said, meaningful symbolism was obviously ubiquitous in the Third Reich, so I will endeavour to outline the alleged Heraldic meanings of the symbolism on the 'Wewelsburg Plaque':

Waves: Waves are said to represent a storm at sea which in turn are reminders of providence and that troubles will keep us vigilant and prevent us from becoming complacent.

Sword: Swords of Teutonic Knights were symbols of Truth and Honour and were bestowed on people of stature. Differentiation in types of swords is quite rare in Heraldry with the exceptions of the Scimitar and the Seax (a curved sword with a notched blade) but it could be possible that the sword on the plaque, with it's downturned blade, could represent the Damoclean Sword of Ancient Greece ie. symbolic of the precariousness of fortune.

Helmet: The Heraldic Helm is (by its shape and position) indicative of rank with a helmet of steel being the lowest. The Dexter facing Stahlhelm on this plaque harks back to the rather plain Glockenhelme of the 13th. Century yet still avoids being anachronistic with the rest of the plaque.

Runes: As has already been stated, the Runes on this shield are 'Sowilo' and 'Wunjo'. It has also been stated that these mean 'Sun' & 'Perfection' respectively, however, 'Sowilo' translates into English as 'Sun' but in fact it is representative of Victory and Clear Vision and as far as I am aware 'Wunjo' translates as 'Joy' and is representative of Understanding and emotional satisfaction.
I am not entirely convinced that the image on the shield is in fact a Bindrune...a Bindrune is a blending of two runic characters whereas this looks to be more akin to two Runes in Saltire ie. crossed diagonally. If this is the case, it would lend credence to the theory of a Runic monogram consisting of the initials of an SS member.

I hope that this has been of some interest and hopefully someone will come up with something more concrete for this intriguing item.

\

Hello JC,

About the Crest...that is very helpful.

About the rules of Heraldry, I had read and been told about how every differant principate had it's own rules and variant meanings...but I am willing to re-research and re-evaluate my previous info...it sure would make it easier to follow the "standard" heraldry rules.

And as to the possibility that the two runes are not bind-runes but conforming to haraldic standards...well that is a interesting and welcome thought also.
I agree it fits as a possible SS initial monogram in runic form .
It is this kind of input I hoped to solicit .
Also thanks for getting this thread back where I prefer the focus to be.
--Michael

**Thorsten B.** · 06-06-2009, 05:32 AM

We need to search for the main interested actors concerning Wappen within the SS:

- there we have in my opinion four important involved persons:

1: Heinrich Himmler

2:Richard Walther Darré

3: Karl-Maria Wiliguth alias Weisthor

4: Karl Diebitsch

Perhaps some other scientists employed by the Ahnenerbe such as Sturmbannführer Karl Theodor Weigel and scientists employed and paid in the early period of the developing SS via the Reichsnährstand of Darré - whose organisation paid many early projects of the Ahnenerbe!

As we know Himmler often enough followed the based (Ahnenerbe) and non-based (Wiliguth) advices of his inner circle, especially within the early period until at least 1938 Darré belonged to his inner circle and personal friends.

Refering to the history and use of Wappen in future Darré held a very speech on one of the Reichsbauerntage in Goslar, it was 1935 or 1936.
I have to take a deeper look into my documents but he definitely refered in detail to the new development of Familien-Wappen.

He said that in the old days of agriculture every half-timbered house decorated with the Familien-Wappen (Sippenschild) on top of the gate (through which the wagon with the harvest was brought in) of the farmers spoke to it´s viewer - about the status of each farmer in the village society, about the family background, about marriages and things like that.

He claimed that people of today (of course in the thierties from his view) do not understand their language anymore and that it is high time to go back and learn that language again and renew and create with newly developed symbols (Sinnbilder!) - guided by the old symbols - new Familien-Wappen for that the german farmer developes power and proudness about his new hgh status in society given by the leaders and politics of the Third Reich.

By the way: that is why the SS in Wewelsburg and Detmold was so keen on buying a very old half-timbered Hof (term for the major farm house combined with stalls, barns..., remember the tern Otten´s Hof) near Delbrück named Valepagenhof.

Type Valepagenhof into the search machines and you will a very beautiful and impressing farm house from 1577(!) - it resides now in the Freilicht- Museum Detmold.

There on both sides of the big gate you will find: yes, the old Familien-Wappen of Jost Varendorf, named as Valepage and his wife.

The Valepages (spelled as written) were a very old family who were KNIGHTS (!!) in the Fürstbistum (prince-bishopric) of Paderborn and are documented within documents (old citations) since at least 1385, the Hof is documented at least since 1337 - there named in a citation as "Lakehof" - so obviously via a marriage the family-name changed with the 13. century.

At that time the "Lakehof" and lateron Valepagenhof belonged as a "Lehnsgut" to the Kloster (monastery) Abdinghof in Paderborn.

The family Valepage owned - apart from the Valepagenhof - four other Höfe: two big "Vollmeierhöfe" (somehow full-size), one "Halbmeierhof" (half-size) and one "Achtelmeierhof" (halfquarter-size) in the local area.

So, does that gives you a hint about the background in those days?

More will come soon - maybe Michael is able to load up a pic of the Valepagenhof and present it here.

**Michael Fay** · 06-06-2009, 03:01 PM

pagenhof1

front of Valpagenhof

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Briefmarke1.jpg (22.7 KB, 269 views)

**Michael Fay** · 06-06-2009, 03:02 PM

pagenhof2

carved frontis-piece beams

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Turschrift02.jpg (99.5 KB, 277 views)

**Michael Fay** · 06-06-2009, 03:03 PM

pagenhof3

wappenhulst

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Wappen_Hulst3.jpg (9.1 KB, 269 views)

**Michael Fay** · 06-06-2009, 03:04 PM

pagenhof4

Wappenvale

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Wappen_Vale4page.jpg (7.2 KB, 273 views)

**Thorsten B.** · 06-06-2009, 05:04 PM

Thanks Michael!

Valepage is a combined very old word leading to saxon traditions: "vale" means pale (bleich, blass) and "page" means horse - so guess what this is?

Yes, that means that these big farmers took care about breeding horses, whose outward appearance (fur) is pale up to a very light sandy and partially light brown - the so-called Senne-Pferde.
The Senne is a landscape full of beauty, clear water and has been the training area of the Schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung 502, 503 and 507 - it was as well for the Waffen-SS and the last stand was forming the SS-Panzerbrigade "Westfalen" who fought south of Paderborn and then had to go back to the river Weser until destroyed in the Harz pocket.

Valepage so far has a connotation to the most important friend and worker as an animal - the white jumping horse is still today the Wappentier of Westfalen and Niedersachsen.
It is said that Widukind rode on a white horse - white horses stay as well for being god-selected and for purity.

Look at the Wappen for SS-Obergruppenführer Pohl and you will find?

Yes, a white jumping horse - and Allach had that in his programm as well, so see the germanic connecting lines within SS-art!

**Thorsten B.** · 06-06-2009, 05:14 PM

Oh, and take a closer look onto the carved frontis-piece beams and the top: you can see fire-breathing wolves as well as christian motifs.

The whole front of the Valepagenhof is a mixture of christian and pagan Sinnbilder, or better: the formerly pagan Sinnbilder (wolves) are woven into a christian connection although there artistic use and root date back far, definitely more far than the christian connotations.

That is the key why the SS was so interested in that building and certainly because of the well-known owner´s families history!

Remember: one of Darré´s books bears (which impressed and influenced Himmler a lot!) the title: "Neuadel aus Blut und Boden" - newer nobility from blood and soil!

So this building was incredibly historically valuable and significant for them.

**Robin Lumsden** · 06-06-2009, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

......Saxon traditions: "vale" means pale (bleich, blass) and "page" means horse.........took care about breeding horses.............the white jumping horse is still today the Wappentier of Westfalen and Niedersachsen.

Like Sachsenhain bei Verden (pferden).

**Robin Lumsden** · 06-06-2009, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Capt. R View Post

Thorsten - You are a nut.

Shame on you.

Thorsten is a TRUE asset to this forum.

His knowledge of the real SS story is second to none.

**Capt. R** · 06-06-2009, 09:13 PM

Robin, seriously, what am I supp. to think??? Responses do not get more childish. You didn't read his ranting. I cannot believe everyone is against me in this regard. But, I thought we were going to just drop it and move on.

So, back to the issue at hand...

Michael-
have you seen your plaque on this website?

http://www.greyfalcon.us/restored/TH...ECROMANCER.htm

**Michael Fay** · 06-07-2009, 04:12 AM

Neuadel Netherland's style

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

Remember: one of Darré´s books bears (which impressed and influenced Himmler a lot!) the title: "Neuadel aus Blut und Boden" - newer nobility from blood and soil!

.

Posted for Thorsten
His photo of the Netherland's version of "Neuadel...."

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Netherland version of DarréŽs book.jpg (71.7 KB, 278 views)

**Michael Fay** · 06-07-2009, 04:15 AM

Neuadel Deutsch Style

Darre was early on one of Himmler's inspirational sources

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darre1.JPG (111.2 KB, 278 views)

**Michael Fay** · 06-07-2009, 04:17 AM

Darre was a prolific author

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darre2.JPG (81.1 KB, 284 views)

**Michael Fay** · 06-07-2009, 04:18 AM

Darre had his own Kult area in Goslar

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darre3.JPG (61.4 KB, 285 views)

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