Graf Spee threads

[Scott C.]

Pulled from the briny depths of the River Plate ... salvaged from its resting place in the shallow waters just off Uruguay’s capital

Stern, bow, briny depths, shallow waters. My cat could write a better article than that.

Still interesting never the less.

[james m]

James,

I just can not believe this story. His actual "suicide" weapon is fairly well known with serial number. It was borrowed from the German Embassy by one of his officers and over the years has ended up in a private collection in Argentina.

I have never heard of any presentation weapon given to him by the crew and in fact, as far as I know, no weapons were removed from the ship prior to scuttling. That is why a weapon was borrowed from the German Embassy in Buenos Aires in the first place.

Still, any photos would be interesting of what you have described. I guess anything is possible but we need to see what you are talking about it for further research and discussion.

In regards to the article above, full of historical inaccuracies regarding the stern eagle of Graf Spee. No such eagle would be on the bow of any German warship, Bismarck included.

What was on the bow were plaque like ship's mottos as can be seen from many period photos.

The stern eagle was removed at the outbreak of the war by any German ship still in Germany but Graf Spee was at sea of course. Such eagles were on destroyer sized ships and above I think. At least I have seen the destroyer stern eagles in photos.

John

Hi John:
I am just repeating what was told to me by the current owner who restored it to firing condition. I didn't mean to imply this was the actual suicide weapon as I don't know exactly what he used. I have also made no judgement call as to originality at this point.
I would also think that at least some small arms were removed before the ship was skuttled.
I have contacted the current owner and requested pictures which I'll post here or perhaps open a new thread in the firearms section when they arrive.
This pistol certainly deserves more scrutiny. If it is in fact bogus we have the necessary knowledge within the firearms community to make that determination.
However I can't really imagine anyone doctoring a Schnellfeuer to this extent and then cutting it up. The current owner didn't disclose what he paid for it but left the impression it was a modest amount.
Jim

[John R.]

I know that you are not representing anything more than what you were told by the current owner. I do not think any firearms were removed from Graf Spee as that would have caused issues with Argentina, already not happy that a crew of German sailors just appeared at the docks. I think every sailor was searched by the Federal Police and if anybody would have had a weapon, it would have been an officer. Since a weapon had to be obtained from the Embassy, I do not think they had one either.

I agree, further research is necessary.

John

[John R.]

To specifically answer your question about the suicide weapon, it was a German pïstol, model Mauser 1934 caliber 7.65 mm, manufactured in 1935. As I said, it came from the German Embassy in Buenos Aires, not Graf Spee.

This is well documented in Argentinian police records.

John

[james m]

Sounds good to me. I will post some pictures when I receive them

Jim

[sunny59]

To be honest here....that eagle wil look great in my collection
....of course...only in my collection

[TJ Suter]

.

[John R.]

Good reference thread:

view-source:http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=143433

[W Petz]

Bob...no need to build anything...you can place it in one of my storage sheds...neighbor!!!

Bill

If they want to send it to me, for protection while they work out the details, I will have a building erected to preserve it. I recall seeing an underwater photo of this from divers in River Plate.

Bob Hritz

[RKC]

Beautiful "bird"!

I'd mount that right up behind my toilet & make a 'Throne Room'.

Much 'classier' than the run-of-the-mill railway car eagles.


Ron.

[Bernie Brule]

If these eagles were removed from ships before the war, was there ever a cache of these eagles found after the war?

And what would a bird like this be worth on the open market?

[John R.]

Original topic continued here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=765659

[Herr_Flick]

Wanna own ½ part of the eagle?

Just stumbled over this: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...agle-graf-spee

Wanna own ½ part of this legendary eagle?


KR,
Carsten

[ENGLISH BOB]

Ha!,the way they carry on you'd think it was the devil himself
There's plenty of German Third Reich eagles on display in Museums here in Europe and other parts of the world..

I really can't stand the sickly spin the media puts on these things..like notorious/infamous nazi ship.It sort of makes out that they were nazi pirates murdering captured crews from ships sunk by the Spee, couldn't really be further from the truth considering the way Captain Langsdorff conducted himself and his War.
He was an honourable old time Navy man who up held the highest traditions of the German Navy,who served his Country and not the party,but they don't put this information in the paper...funny that

Cheers
Bob

[ReiseReise]

Ha!,the way they carry on you'd think it was the devil himself
There's plenty of German Third Reich eagles on display in Museums here in Europe and other parts of the world..

I really can't stand the sickly spin the media puts on these things..like notorious/infamous nazi ship.It sort of makes out that they were nazi pirates murdering captured crews from ships sunk by the Spee, couldn't really be further from the truth considering the way Captain Langsdorff conducted himself and his War.
He was an honourable old time Navy man who up held the highest traditions of the German Navy,who served his Country and not the party,but they don't put this information in the paper...funny that

Cheers
Bob

Amen, couldn't have said it better myself! This trend to demonification of all things German in WWII is definitely far from the truth, and is painting a very one-sided history of the war. It feels like propaganda 70 years too late. The average Joe solider, no matter the side he fought for, was a decent fellow who was just trying to do his duty to his country and his men; this was especially true in the navies where the codes and traditions of naval warfare (usually) superseded the "politics of the day".

And indeed, with so many historical items being sold and displayed with HKs in plain view, I don't understand why this salvaged eagle is causing such an upset. Would a neo-Nazi group pay millions of dollars to get a ship's ornament? I don't see it happening. People like that would just as soon spray one in an alley for $2 worth of paint :S.