Graf Spee threads

[John R.]

Helena's crew saw much more combat than the Graf Spee crew, finally being sunk by Japanese destroyers with the loss of nearly 200 men.
 
Helena's combat record was so impressive that it was the first ship in the US Navy to receive the Navy Unit Commendation. Her actions in the Battles of Cape Esperance, Guadalcanal, and Kula Gulf were named in the citation.

John

[John R.]

Not possible. I believe in one of Angolia's books he has a photo of the Graf Spee bell on Scharnhorst. So the Graf Spee bell should be at the bottom of the Atlantic right now.

I do not know how the bell got off the wreck, or if it was taken by the crew to Argentina then on to Germany by merchant ship, but the photo is there. I do not have my books with me but maybe somebody can post it here.

John

[John R.]

Have to agree Why would the bell have 1939 on it when the Graf Spee was one of the original "Pocket Battleships" from 1935-36. Also, a member who lives down south has posted many pictures of the original bell on display in a museum.

Like to see those photos, possible of course. John

[John R.]

To the bell in question, I believe they are only commemorative bells, nothing more. They are sold quite often for around $120 maybe.

THIS BELL WAS MADE TO COMMEMORATE THE SINKING OF THE GRAF SPEE. IT IS SMALLER THAN AN ACTUAL SHIPS BELL WOULD BE. THIS BELL IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION AND WOULD SERVE AS A GREAT CONVERSATION PIECE OR IN A MARITIME SETTING. BELL MEASURES 7" TALL AND IS 7 1/2" IN DIAMETER. IT IS VERY LOUD WHEN RUNG. THE WALL HOLDER IS 11 1/2" IN LENGTH.

[John R.]

Another and a google images search will show many more.

[Marcel Banziger]

Talking about the Graf Spee...I came across this page where there's talk of recovering the ship. Perhaps it's old news but it's new to me hehe.
Don't know what to think of this to be honest. Sometimes things are best when left alone.

http://www.lummifilm.com/grafspee/about.html

[Bob Hritz]

If anyone knows where I can get one of those anchor wall mounts, for my bell, please let me know.

Thank you,
Bob Hritz

[R.R.]

Graf Spee cap tally question

Hi,

I never have see one before, but I think it's theorically possible. Has someone saw a original Graf Spee cap tally with artificial silk lettering?

Best Regards,

Ricardo

[CSForrester]

Hello Ricardo,

you have seen my Graf Spee on estand, see uniforms table

Yes, i have seen some more in the past. Past means the last 30 years.
End of 1937 the change from metal to artificial silk for the letters was completed, and all units of the Kriegsmarine got only tallies with artificial silk from the Marinebekleidungsamt until the war started.
So - of cause, also all personal commanded on board of Graf Spee in this time, received two tallies with letter woven from artififial silk.
That is not my opinion or any secret, its a well known fact. For the same reason the metal branch badges were made from this time from aluminium or zink to safe copper and brass for ammunition.

Best regards
Markus

By the way: they are harder to find than the 150cm long private purchased tallies from this period.

[R.R.]

Hi Markus,

No, I don't had see your tally. But a very significant fact you had explained here, Graf Spee crew had received two artificial silk tallies before war started.

Tank you very much.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

[CSForrester]

Hello Ricardo,

you are nearly right. Sailors which were 1937 on board did not get new tallies. Only personal commanded on board after the change of materials got two new tallies from artificial silk, as soon as the old stock in the Marinebekleidungsamt was given out.
So you find some units very often with artificial silk - most units formed shortly before the change of materials, for example many destroyers.
Cruisers, battleships aso had a large number of men, and many of them stayed on board for some years. So they kept their old tallies.

Regards
Markus

[R.R.]

Hi Markus,

OK, I think I understand what you said now, only personel accepted on board after change has received artificial silk wooven tallies.

There are evidences if artificial silk tallies was disponible for private purchase too or they was only produceds for official KM distribuition?


Best Regards,

Ricardo

[R.R.]

Hi,

I started this thread to answer a friend who e-mailed me asking about Graf Spee artificial silk tallies. When I started this thread I don't had idea that Markus was selling this tally at stand and now I think my friend is interested in it and was asking me about it's authenticity. Yes, I agree, Markus is selling some fine tallies at stand, soo much among them interested me, but unfortunatelly now I don't have conditions to purchase something. I'll contact my friend sending him some good references about Markus and his tallies.

Good luck for both.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

[realone]

Ok guys, which is more rare, metal or artificial material?

Greg

[CSForrester]

My small 2cents:

tallies with metal thread woven letters were given out from 1930 to 1937.
Those from artificial silk from 1937 to September 1939.

Now - which are more rare ?

Let´s wait for answers of the experts.

Regards
Markus