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**Johnnie** · 10-17-2006, 02:16 PM

I have followed this thread with a combination of emotions ranging from surprise to shock to outright disgust. I'm not new to German helmets. I have been studying them for years off and on, and have owned a few in the past. What is new for me in the last couple years is an income that will permit me to perhaps actually buy some items that were only in the dream category a couple years ago. I study the books, study this board. I download and study pics of decals good and fake, of proper chinstraps and liners. Have two file folders on my computer, one with known fakes, and one with some of the known good ones posted here. Or are they?
I was looking forward to comming home next year and meeting some of you at shows ect. And getting the best education available on helms which is handling good ones.
Does this mean I now have to ask "Was this bought from Ken?"
I don't know Ken. I don't know any of you. I don't know any dealers at all, and very few fellow collectors. And I certainly hope at some point Ken will come forward with a truthful explanation. But from the evidence, he is aware of this issue and hasn't steped forward.
I will continue to study this part of my hobby. I will continue to enjoy it regardless of this type of sorry situation. I will continue to ask you guys questions and build my data base. And next year when I come home, will VERY CAREFULLY begin building the small collection goal I have set for myself.
But this type of thing is going to eventually ruin this hobby, and destroy the value of collections that a lot of good people have built up over the years. Now we are going to have to establish not only the provenence of the helmet itself, but also which dealer it came from.
Perry is right to keep this thread going. Perhaps it should be pinned for future reference.
OK, I'm off the soapbox. And thanks to you honest guys for providing the info we need. Even if it is alarming and painful.
Best regards,
Johnnie

**Perry Floyd** · 10-17-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Lignemaginot View Post

Thank goodness I sold all my German helmets a few years ago; I'd look at the paint and decals, and figured that sooner rather than later, there'd just be no way for me to tell what was original and what was not.

I started to concentrate on visor caps, and then only Heer and Luft (unless I found a KM or W-SS made by a known private-purchase maker); it seemed to me that it was far more difficult for someone to make a repro visor cap that could pass as original, than a helmet, even if they were trying to patch together original parts (which in the visor cap world we call a "Frankenstein"). If it hadn't been for this person having taken photos of this helmet, this Frankenstein helmet would be an accepted original in the helmet collectors' community simply because of its origin.

Given the relative ease of replacing a liner in a helmet (as opposed to the liner in a visor cap, for example), I can only imagine that this event is going to seriously lower that very top range of prices that have been paid for supposedly unmolested helmets, as everyone starts to acknowledge that there's no way to ever prove that a helmet has not been molested. If I ever got back into collecting helmets, I would only ever pay the amount for a complete original helmet - not for an "unmolested" complete original helmet.

If your helmet COA says that the helmet is complete and original, great. If your helmet COA says that it's unmolested (especially if it's from this gentleman), you can now get more use out of it by using it line your daughter's hamster cage. I do feel badly for all of you who have paid the recent super-high-end prices for your unmolested helmet.

In my opinion, WWII German combat helmets is one of the "safest" areas of Third Reich collecting.

**pfschgo** · 10-17-2006, 02:50 PM

In the case I am personally involved in...detection was simple. Look inside the leather liner...the one in question , a 35EF, had a '44 dated RBN in the liner. It was pointed out to me by my purchaser. I suspect he had a 6th sense about it, having seen so many of the earlier era. Sounds simple, right?
I felt like I was sitting on a grape...a lesson learned.
Paul

**Mike Osbourne** · 10-17-2006, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by pfschgo View Post

In the case I am personally involved in...detection was simple. Look inside the leather liner...the one in question , a 35EF, had a '44 dated RBN in the liner. It was pointed out to me by my purchaser. I suspect he had a 6th sense about it, having seen so many of the earlier era. Sounds simple, right?
I felt like I was sitting on a grape...a lesson learned.
Paul

Could it be a depot or field replacement/reissue?

**Perry Floyd** · 10-17-2006, 03:15 PM

Even in field or depot "reissue" pieces there's a "norm" to how things were done. I'm often rebutted on what the norm should be(actually many times from Ken) but each has to draw his own conclusions and standards from the information..

**Martin E** · 10-17-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Perry Floyd View Post

Even in field or depot "reissue" pieces there's a "norm" to how things were done. I'm often rebutted on what the norm should be(actually many times from Ken) but each has to draw his own conclusions and standards from the information..

That makes alot of sense, someone re-writing history for their own benefit.

Very early on in my collecting career,the dealer in question tried to sell me a totally bogus helmet off of his site. It was claimed as an honest mistake. The whole situation never sat well with me. Only a blind man could make such a mistake. I now look at this in a totally different light. I will never purchase another helmet from this gentleman,even if it is the last helmet on earth. I do not have to have German helmets to survive, this is just a hobby for me. The dealer in guestion definately took a lot of wind out of my sail.

martin

**MARKH** · 10-17-2006, 05:16 PM

Purchased a single decal Heer M40 from source in question with a leather liner stamped 7-43 RB Nr.0/1305/0327 61, is this a correct??

**Dan P** · 10-17-2006, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Brian Ice View Post

What doesn't make sense to me is that why remove the original liner from a very high dollar helmet? If it was only a common 1939 dated aluminum liner that was needed, why not remove one from a much cheaper ND helmet/reissue ?

Yeah, it really doesn't make much sense, but neither does ruining a long standing reputation as one of the best dealers. He probably just got a little careless, didn't think much of removing the liner from a "lowly" police helmet and thought it would go unnoticed.

I could be wrong, I don't think his COA's state that a helmet is untampered with, just that it's a true artifact of the German Third Reich, or something to that effect.

**PAB** · 10-17-2006, 06:06 PM

familiarality breeds contempt, as weve now seen with the other examples, He has been at it for years and this is the tip of KenNs iceberg. His COAs are now worthless bits of paper.

**Jim McCauley** · 10-17-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by MARKH View Post

Purchased a single decal Heer M40 from source in question with a leather liner stamped 7-43 RB Nr.0/1305/0327 61, is this a correct??

Hello Mark,

That could very well be correct.

I'm afraid that paranoia is going to set in due to this event!

Anything that isn’t "textbook" and some things that are "textbook" will be questioned.

Best regards.

Jim

**Michael Kuligowski** · 10-17-2006, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Perry Floyd View Post

In my opinion, WWII German combat helmets is one of the "safest" areas of Third Reich collecting.

WEll Parry - as long as we reffer to factory finished etc helmets - yes - its quite safe here... but camos... net helmets.. etc - I think are a bit dangerous and tricky....

Back to main stream here - I think many things was already said ... most of them - many times....

whats the point Gentleman to continue ?? RIP to this thread... IMHO

**mech91** · 10-17-2006, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by MauserKar98k View Post

How could Ken just throw his reputation away like that? This whole affair is just sad

Which sellers are honest? Which ones are not? Who knows? This whole thing has turned the helmet collecting world on its head.

The situation at hand is not unusual in any hobby that turns high dollar. When your hobby turns into a means to provide for your family, and pay a mortgage, this happens. The collectors have to be more educated and careful with thier purchases, and the thieves more clever with the items they try to pass as good. This was comming. Watch how everyone behaves and talks at the next show. Every item will be assumed to be a fake until thouroughly inspected by the buyer to be and other experienced collectors.

**Marc Shaffer** · 10-17-2006, 08:24 PM

Looked at his website today and it says that he will have little or no access to the internet until Nov 7th.

By now, do you really expect him to respond? I don't believe he will.

**RoyA** · 10-17-2006, 08:34 PM

Perhaps he already did...Ich Oder Du? Charly?

**Glenn McInnes** · 10-17-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by RoyA View Post

Perhaps he already did...Ich Oder Du? Charly?

That would be my guess..

Glenn

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