AH flatware

[BrianK]

You are right - it's 99% guesswork - like the stock market.

[ErichS]

Hi Brian,

I'm curious: how will you know when the market has peaked? Seems to me that one only knows that after the fact, and by then its too late to capitalize on it.

Br. James

Good point James. With the prices on top shelf items getting more expensive including AH silverware you would need a Chrystal Ball to know when they have hit their highest price point.

[BrianK]

There is no doubt AH silverware is hot - just take a look at the last Craig Gottlieb auction. I am just trying to figure out why - since they are historical and nice to look at but not really rare - at least not rarer than the Goring pieces on the market. There is a picture in an old Life magazine about TR collectors showing some guy with several hundred pieces spread out on his lawn. So I am just sitting here wondering about the pieces I paid $495 not so long ago selling for $1495 - how high will they go? I consider the AH silverware to be somewhere in the middle of TR collectibles, not common like SA daggers and EKs, but not the true "blue chips" like the diamond awards, the Hitler and Goring visor caps, and (don't I wish I had it!) the Blood Flag.

[ErichS]

There is no doubt AH silverware is hot - just take a look at the last Craig Gottlieb auction. I am just trying to figure out why - since they are historical and nice to look at but not really rare - at least not rarer than the Goring pieces on the market. There is a picture in an old Life magazine about TR collectors showing some guy with several hundred pieces spread out on his lawn. So I am just sitting here wondering about the pieces I paid $495 not so long ago selling for $1495 - how high will they go? I consider the AH silverware to be somewhere in the middle of TR collectibles, not common like SA daggers and EKs, but not the true "blue chips" like the diamond awards, the Hitler and Goring visor caps, and (don't I wish I had it!) the Blood Flag.

The reason the Goering silverware is not as collectable as the Hitler silverware are the two letters "AH".

[Br. James]

You're right, of course, Brian. My first piece of the AH Informal Pattern -- which is what I exclusively collect between the two major AH silver service patterns -- was a dessert fork which I paid $400.00 for 15 years ago, and today they go for about $1,200.00. In addition to the fact that both the AH Formal (State) Pattern and the Informal Pattern are attributed to being 'gifts' given to Hitler for his 50th birthday, examples of these patterns have turned up at all of Hitler's residences, including his private trains, aboard his yacht and at at least some of his military headquarters. While there are solid examples of quite a variety of other AH-monogramed pieces from the period, it doesn't seem that those examples are from full sets of tableware such as the purported 3,000-piece service of the State Pattern or the 1,000-piece service of the Informal Pattern. Rather, those other odd pieces were probably from gift sets of just spoons or knives or forks, but not whole multi-piece services. So, considering that, the Formal and the Informal Pattern pieces represent (at least to me) the historic services which Hitler was involved in the design of, along with Prof. Gerdy Troost, and that were used by him at a variety of locations. Also, I don't recall ever seeing a large variety of serving pieces -- trays, pitchers, vases, etc. -- in any other design except for the Formal Pattern.

As we know, many of the Nazi big-wigs had silver tableware among their possessions, but nothing to the extent of Hitler's Formal and Informal Pattern. Some of the Gauleiters had attributed silverware, as did Ribbentrop, but the Gau pieces seem to have held the Gau logo and not that of the Gauleiter (here I'm thinking of Fritz Sauckel's service in Thüringen) and the Ribbentrop pieces represented his position as Foreign Minister. Certainly Göring had a variety of pieces with different logos including his family crest, and that of his wife, Emmy, but again, nothing as extensive as the huge services made for Hitler's state and personal use.

Br. James

[BrianK]

Yes - the 2 letters "AH" provoke demand over supply. They must even impress me, as I have turned down offers to buy my AH silverware despite a potential profit. The other 2 letters known to do this are "SS" - where, although certain items like SS Rohm daggers and Dr. Strangelove level cufftitles are rare, the average SS armband or dagger is not - but they bring high prices anyway. I guess in regards to AH silverware, if the knives, forks, and spoons ever go to $2495 each. my rational mind will overtake my collector mind, and I will sell out.

[Br. James]

Again I agree, Brian...though with the caveat that, as each of us grows older day by year, the time when we will either sell at a comfortable profit or allow our lifetime of collecting to be sold with our estate -- often by those who know nothing of its potential value or how/where to best sell it. In the end, each of us is only a custodian of the relics we have amassed and treasured, just as were all those from whom we acquired these pieces over the decades of our lifetime.

Br. James

[BrianK]

The ironic thing is that I can't get a true sense of timing in the (slightly irrational) collectible markets. At the time I bought my Goring silverware, I already had some AH silverware, and thought I'd buy some Goring pieces to go along with it. To do so I sold some gold coins to finance it. Then gold went from $1000/oz. to almost $1900/oz, (around $1500 now). AH silverware skyrocketed, and Goring ware died.

[Obersalzberg]

Hardly anyone will ever admit to others that Hitlers spell has reached them from beyond his grave and the truth is in that mix of emotions, sympathy and admiration are somewhere to be found.
. Most cannot admit to this so Iinvariably the wrong reason is given for their collection. ...usually camouflaged as 'my historical interest ' or such like.
We fantasize that these simple silver relics which I too own may, at one point in time have been touched by 'Him'.

[robs]

I have one piece of AH silverware but several AH crystal ware. This is much rarer but prices for those seem very variable, not as easily determinable as silverware prices.

Re Goring items, many collectors have the belief of rarer equals desireable and will mean more return (such as unnumbered blood orders). Buy it for your own interest. I love my AH crystal pieces and potentially getting a return is secondary, knowing silverware is much hotter for collectors.

[BrianK]

Somewhere in the world there is a collector for Goring silver - and I will find him (or her). I also have a photo of Goring signed with a pink pencil - but it is not for sale.

[robs]

Well Peter Jackson bought Goring's tunic for a fairly substantive price, now displayed at Omaka air museum New Zealand, along with Red Baron tail fin.

[Obersalzberg]

The un desirability of Goering silver is the fact that he had no officially recognised design and so you get masses of the stuff all with random designs some good others clearly not. From HG yo his coat of arms....far too much and far to varied.

[BrianK]

There are official Goring designs known through research - and documented. It is high prices that induce forgery, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were forgeries on the AH pieces - $1500 for a fork will do that. The only thing that isn't officially recognized from the TR is pornography - no way to tell if it is post or pre 1945.

[Br. James]

Hi Brian,

I was not aware that there are "official Göring designs," other than the wedding design containing both crests. Do say more! And as to forgeries, that is always possible since there is no way to ascertain whether a given piece -- of silverware, a medal or decoration, a dagger, an article of clothing, etc. -- was absolutely produced prior to May 8, 1945, or after that date, by the original manufacturer. Unless, of course, one knows that the sole factory of the manufacturer in question was destroyed prior to that date.

Br. James