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**CPB** · 10-07-2015, 02:47 AM

I have no evidence for this whatsoever, but I suspect some of these pieces - or pieces like them – could have been used for low-end visitors to places like the Berghof.

We've all seen photos of Hitler entertaining large BDM/HJ groups at the Berghof, right? Do you think they would have got the 'special silver' out just for them? I doubt it. I think they would have have a set of 'daily driver' cutlery for folks like that. Stuff that can get dropped, bent, stolen, whatever.

Who knows. Fun to speculate.

**Antonio Scapini** · 10-07-2015, 03:18 AM

I agree there are no evidences about the use of various patterns, but to be onest I have to say in these years I had a lot of AH pieces and now I really prefere the rare patterns as those I showed.
Formal pieces are nice, but quite common to find. I looked for years before find the other patterns as I wanted.

BTW: there are some evidences about the use of forks, spoons, etc.. of the so called formal-informal patterns?
On Griffith's book the last pattern I showed is described as "rare Berghof pattern".

**Br. James** · 10-07-2015, 08:01 AM

Erich's note below captures my point of view on this subject, too. We will never know how many different gifts of personalized silver tableware were given to Hitler (or to Eva Braun or to any and all of the Nazi bigwigs over the years), but to me the really important thing is the difference between those silverware patterns that were desired enough by Hitler for him to have a known studio design them for him (Troost Studio) and for major quantities of those patterns to have been ordered, produced and used at a number of his homes, offices and other locations -- those are the AH Formal and Informal Patterns -- as opposed to the many different designs of monogrammed tableware and related articles that were created for Hitler by sycophants and by an adoring public. These latter patterns were possibly never actually used at any of Hitler's tables, though they were undoubtedly acknowledged with thanks by a grateful Fuehrer. Examples of these unrequested silver pieces have turned up in Berchtesgaden, Munich and Berlin -- where Hitler had homes and received countless numbers of gifts over the years -- but, IMHO, the historically important artifacts are representative of the two silver patterns that Hitler chose, approved and wanted to surround him wherever he went.

Cheers,

Br. James

**Antonio Scapini** · 10-07-2015, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Br. James View Post

...These latter patterns were possibly never actually used at any of Hitler's tables...

Some of these were found on Hitler's apartment and Hitler's train. Do you really believe Hitler had useless gifts given him from "sycophants" and an "adoring public" in his apartment and his train? He was able to give order to kill his friends but not to put in the trash some silverware?
I believe he didn't think they were simply "sycophants" as you said.

BTW: May I see some pictures of informal spoon-forks used on Hitler's table?

**Br. James** · 10-07-2015, 12:53 PM

Hi Antonio,

This is only my opinion, though I believe it is shared by others of our colleagues here on WAF. Hitler was a major Head of State and as such, I'm sure he was the target of countless gifts given and sent to him wherever he was at the moment. From period writing we are told of his high regard for such presents, that he had many of these items inventoried and stored away in various places, especially at the Obersalzberg. But this did not apparently mean that he intended to actually use many if any of these countless gifts of pillows, food products, furniture, jewelry, paintings of all sorts, and yes, monogrammed silverware, too. As any Head of State would, then as now, we know that he sent countless "thank-you" notes for gifts, cards and letters throughout his career in politics, but again, that should not be understood as guaranteeing his intention to actually use (or eat) any of these gift items.

As regards examples of the AH Informal Pattern, such examples have shown up among many caches of silverware pieces established as having originated in Hitler's various homes, offices, etc. While I don't believe I've ever seen any photos of examples of the Informal Service in period use, the clarity of most photos taken at table events during these years is not sufficient to identify any particular design or pattern that I have seen.

This is certainly not to say that such pieces are fakes of themselves or that they did not originate during the TR era or that they were not "liberated" from one of Hitler's dwellings or office locations; I believe that has been well established.

Br. James

**Antonio Scapini** · 10-07-2015, 02:40 PM

I agree with you about quite all, and my request about some pictures was just because, as far as knew, there are no pictures showing which patterns were used and which not.
Yes, Hitler formal pattern was designed by himself, but as I wrote before, of all the patterns coming from Berghof, each collector has his preferences, and now I prefere the other patterns, simply because they are thousand times rarer than the famous formal one.

For all the rest I agree with CPB: fun to speculate and have discussions!

**Brent Smith** · 10-07-2015, 03:51 PM

Rare WWII Adolf Hitler's Reich Chancellery Serving Dish With Handles Mfg. Wellner (53

Rare WWII Adolf Hitler's Reich Chancellery Serving Dish With Handles Mfg. Wellner (53) ..You just don't see this one very often.. Only owned one other some years ago ...

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**Brent Smith** · 10-07-2015, 03:52 PM

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**Br. James** · 10-08-2015, 07:24 AM

Hi Antonio,

Thanks for your good response! For the record, I don't believe that Hitler actually 'designed' either pattern of AH silverware himself. As I understand it, the most he may have contributed to either the Formal or the Informal design might have been a sketch or two to indicate the general direction of his taste in this matter -- especially since these pieces were to bear his personal initials and appear on his tables at both State and private occasions; the design work itself is attributed to Professor Gerdy Troost and her staff at Troost Studio, which makes sense to me.

Cheers, my friend,

Br. James

**CPB** · 10-08-2015, 04:45 PM

Aside from the fact this is hugely overpriced, what's interesting about this tray is where it was taken from. The HDDK? Never knew AH silver was used or looted from there.

http://historybygeorge.com/product_i...roducts_id=136

**Br. James** · 10-08-2015, 06:30 PM

I agree...quite odd IMO! I guess it's possible that this piece got left behind following an event Hitler held at the HDK...?!?! Can't think of any other reason why this piece would have been found there at war's end.

Br. James

**Brent Smith** · 10-09-2015, 08:03 PM

Cool Inscrbied Removed From Hitler's Apartment Mein Kampf

Cool Inscrbied Removed From Hitler's Apartment Mein Kampf .. A cool piece of war booty brought back by Capt Daniel B. Allen 45th Infantry Division ..Vol 2 1st edition 1927 Mein Kampf .. I understand Mein Kampf was printed in 2 vol.s .. Vol. 1 was published in 1925 and not complete until 1927 with vol. 2 . This is a interesting serial numbered edition bound in red leather

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**Brent Smith** · 10-09-2015, 08:04 PM

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**Br. James** · 10-10-2015, 09:42 AM

VERY nice and historic, too, Brent! I believe MK continued to be published in two separate volumes/ bindings until the Eher Verlag came out with the "Volksausgabe" in 1930, which combined both volumes into one binding.

I wonder whether this copy ever had a dust jacket? Thanks for sharing it with us!

Br. James

**CPB** · 10-25-2015, 05:35 AM

Thought you guys might like to see these. This is the AH formal pattern cigar cutter and grape snippers, both with provenance from the Eagle's Nest.

The FHQ cuff title was also taken from Berchtesgaden, by a member of the 501st PIR.

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