AH flatware

[all1knew]

Hello all,

Any comments on this fork? Seller wants $1,000.00 and would like to ask if that seems fair if this is authentic?

William Kramer

[all1knew]

silverware informal pattern

[Br. James]

Hi William,

This is a fine piece...and I collect the AH Informal Pattern myself! It carries the Bruckmann hallmark, and Bruckmann was the only manufacturer of both the AH Formal and Informal silver flatware -- though Wellner manufactured ancillary pieces such as napkin rings, serving plates of all sizes, etc. While I'm not sure that "fair" is a word that should be used when discussing such rare pieces, the $1,000.00 tag is certainly in accord with what one sees available in today's market. I have been collecting AH Informal flatware for quite a number of years and the first piece or two that I bought cost under $400.00, though that was more than a decade ago. The Informal Pattern normally goes for around $1,200.00 a piece today, so if you can land this one for less than that, it sounds like a good deal to me. Hope this is helpful.

Br. James

[all1knew]

Br. James,

Thank you so much for your help.

William Kramer

[Jon Fish]

One piece of informal sold on the e-stand a few weeks ago for $495 or 595,can't remember now.

[V.I.D.]

I also thought that, on average, informal pattern pieces cost considerably less than 1 K figure cited, although they are fewer in number than the formal ones.

[GEBIRGS-JAGER]

Hi Thomas Wittmann had some informal pieces around 6 months ago in the 700.00 range.Make an other offer. Brian

[Br. James]

From a quick check on the net I note that Tom Wittmann has no pieces of the AH Informal Pattern service available now, though he does offer a number of the Formal Pattern. The only examples of the Informal Pattern I could find available today are being offered by Brent's Antiques, and they are at the price range I mentioned in my previous note. Both Wittmann and Brent's have a variety of Formal Pattern pieces available, and they are listed at prices of over $150.00 higher than available Informal pieces.

There are always examples in any collectible category that appear at bargain prices at a given moment -- isn't that why eBay is remains so attractive? -- but as a rule, such bargains exist on a first-come-first-served basis. I'm sure that there is the odd GPB floating around out there somewhere for just a few hundred dollars, but the established value is normally to be found through dealer catalogs. IMHO, of course!

Br. James

[ErichS]

I also thought that, on average, informal pattern pieces cost considerably less than 1 K figure cited, although they are fewer in number than the formal ones.

Yes, more rare but most collectors want the less rare formal pattern pieces.

[V.I.D.]

Yes, more rare but most collectors want the less rare formal pattern pieces.

I have to admit I also like formal pattern better than the informal ones, but I would not be opposed to have any of those in my collection, provided they are authentic pieces.

[V.I.D.]

There are always examples in any collectible category that appear at bargain prices at a given moment -- isn't that why eBay is remains so attractive? -- but as a rule, such bargains exist on a first-come-first-served basis. I'm sure that there is the odd GPB floating around out there somewhere for just a few hundred dollars, but the established value is normally to be found through dealer catalogs. IMHO, of course!

Br. James

Very well said Br. James, as usual.

[Br. James]

For quite a few years it has been accepted -- by me as well as by numerous other collectors and dealers -- that the so-called AH Formal Pattern Service, also known as the State Service, was a gift presented to Hitler for his 50th birthday in 1939. This service was huge, comprised supposedly of 3,000 pieces of flatware alone, plus numerous ancillary pieces including napkin rings, silver serving trays and compotes of many sizes, flower vases, and even cigarette boxes and cigar cutters...and who, then or now, didn't know that Hitler didn't smoke?! The service was supposedly designed by Prof. Gerdy Troost and this is certainly possible, given that she and her interior design firm had served Hitler, Albert Speer and Germany for years in creating everything from buildings to furniture to...! It is also widely accepted that the other, similar service known as the AH Informal Pattern consisted of 1,000 pieces of flatware, and occasionally examples of ancillary pieces in this pattern also come to the surface. This Informal Pattern Service is believed to have been produced for Hitler prior to the Formal Pattern. Both flatware patterns were produced in .800 solid silver by the large cutlery firm of P. Bruckmann & Söhne of Heilbronn in Württemberg, while the ancillary pieces were produced usually in .925 solid silver (Sterling) by the equally prestigeous Wellner firm – Sächsische Metallwarenfabrik August Wellner Söhne AG, or the Saxon Metalware Factory of August Wellner’s Sons, Inc. – located in the village of Aue in Saxony. What I have yet to learn is who presented these services to Hitler? Whose gifts were they?

Lore also tells us that examples of both of these pattern services turned up at war's end in a variety of locations, including the Berlin Reichschancellery, the Führerbau, the Braunes Haus, Hitler's Prinzregentenstrasse apartment, the Berghof, Hitler's private trains and even aboard his private yacht, and all of these locations would seem to make sense! If the original gifts were divided up into allocations spread around the countryside, then it would be natural to find examples of these pieces in all of these residences and locations. But I am yet to see any acknowledgement from either Bruckmann or Wellner as to the origin of these pieces...and one would suppose that the order for service sets as large as these would have been well documented. There is no doubt that Bruckmann and Wellner made these pieces, but I would think that the manufacturer's records would show when and by whom these huge orders were placed, and that would answer a number of questions for me. Any further thoughts would be quite welcome.

Br. James

[ErichS]

James,

I'm in the camp that believes that both services were in fact ordered by Hitler rather than being gifts.

[CPB]

$1000 is about average for a dealer but, as Jon points out, these go for a lot less on estand from time to time.

[Br. James]

Thanks, Erich; I'm sure that's a possibility, especially since we don't seem to actually have direct establishment for the source of these flatware designs, or even that one or both services were, in fact, presented to Hitler upon his 50th birthday. Can you say anything further as to why you believe that Hitler ordered both of these silver services himself? And do you have any sense of what differentiated the two patterns? A great subject!

Br. James