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**jabnus** · 01-15-2013, 07:11 AM

Dear Thorsten,

Another bunch of DHW pictures to draw away attention from the discussion about objects you started discussions on yourself by proudly posting them.

Can you please finally answer the questions that are here on almost 20 pages now about the four Gahr brooches you posted on page 188? I asked nicely and said please, i even looked at your non related youtubelinks and tried to ignore your boasting tone and looking down on me, what more do you want me to do before you are going to answer? Why all the rude comments like this one:

Originally posted by Thorsten B.

Well, time for the premium class then.

You search for a real Gahr piece?

Happy hunting!

Do you think if someone asked about Gahr items they did not know what those were? Yes i would like int he future to get my hands on REAL Gahr items for my collection, preferable some related to the Motherstheme. I am well aware Gahr items are premium class, thank you for pointing it out in such a crude way. The hunt for collectibles is part of the game. So was the hunt for my Blood Order as well as my current one for a Coburg badge. Untill that time it would be nice to learn more from original Gahr items. You claim your brooch is original, yes i doubt it but if you are so sure why not post more of it?

**Thorsten B.** · 01-15-2013, 07:30 AM

I posted ONE original Gahr brooch.

I bought it from the family of a known SS-Standartenführer who bought the brooch as a present for his wife.

I have copies of pics of him and his wife and a copy of his death certificate.

An amazing piece and history!

Apart from the shown two pieces on page 70 and 93 in the Gahr book I am not aware of any other original Gahr brooch worldwide!!

**jabnus** · 01-15-2013, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

I posted ONE original Gahr brooch.

You posted four brooches after the question came if someone could post Gahr items and after an original period picture was posted depicting period brooches. One was immediatly pointed out as fake as the details were horrible, another at least had a similar "Gahr-like" design, another clearly came from an auction site and is total junk and then there is this one being talked about here for numerous pages without adding any substantial real info again and again.

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

I bought it from the family of a known SS-Standartenführer who bought the brooch as a present for his wife.

I have copies of pics of him and his wife and a copy of his death certificate.

An amazing piece and history!.

Interesting story, but like everything posted by you in this topic, some evidence would be much nicer and unfortunately this little story says nothing about the brooch you have shown, refuse to show more of and claim is a real Gahr brooch. We are still waiting for pictures to study and which you still don't want to post.

Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post

Apart from the shown two pieces on page 70 and 93 in the Gahr book I am not aware of any other original Gahr brooch worldwide!!

You may not be aware, yes this could very well be the first correct thing you have posted in many pages. I know of at least one other in a privat collection and have held it several times in my hands to study, it was an amazing piece of superior quality. After all these pages it would be quite something if we could now finally see your much talked about brooch instead of the short SS story above here. You have made far too many false SS assumptions in this topic for the above reply to have any credibility. Imagine also if every topic that started on WAF had still after 20 pages not one single decent reply or picture posted.

Gaston

**Michael Fay** · 01-15-2013, 10:21 PM

Lets discuss post 6008 suspicious Gahr piece

Originally posted by jabnus View Post

You posted four brooches after the question came if someone could post Gahr items and after an original period picture was posted depicting period brooches. One was immediatly pointed out as fake as the details were horrible, another at least had a similar "Gahr-like" design, another clearly came from an auction site and is total junk and then there is this one being talked about here for numerous pages without adding any substantial real info again and again....

...You may not be aware, yes this could very well be the first correct thing you have posted in many pages. I know of at least one other in a privat collection and have held it several times in my hands to study, it was an amazing piece of superior quality. After all these pages it would be quite something if we could now finally see your much talked about brooch instead of the short SS story above here. You have made far too many false SS assumptions in this topic for the above reply to have any credibility. Imagine also if every topic that started on WAF had still after 20 pages not one single decent reply or picture posted.

Gaston

Hello Gaston,
it appears you may know more about gahr items than anyone else on WAF these days having as you explain actually handling authentic Gahr items.

lets discuss the suspicious gahr piece as seen in post #2809 without Thorsten as he refuses to reply.
What exactly do you see that causes you to suspect it is not what Thorsten claims it is (all the while refusing to provide the required pictures as all other members are happy to provide)?
I believe it has somthing to do with the pin configuration?

I am sure we can stay well mannered and polite...

Sincerely, MF

Attached Files

Gahr fake of thorsten.JPG (109.0 KB, 257 views)

**Minnesinger** · 01-16-2013, 10:42 AM

Hey Thorsten. What is the piece to the left of my Jul-photo?

**Thorsten B.** · 01-16-2013, 10:49 AM

Have a look onto the table at the Reichsgartenschau Stuttgart.

**Minnesinger** · 01-16-2013, 01:07 PM

Thank you for that very exhaustive, full and explanatory reply.

**Thorsten B.** · 01-16-2013, 02:48 PM

Here you see a similar DHW piece as a candleholder:

http://architekturmuseum.ub.tu-berli...9&Daten=111080

Yours is even more practical:

- as a cup holder in your germanic household
- holder of Brezeln and Kohlwurst

**jabnus** · 01-16-2013, 03:55 PM

Hi Michael,

I would consider myself definately not an expert on Gahr items or for that matter on anything, and don't think many people are at all, although many claim otherwise. Over the years i happened to run in a thing or two and learn a few little things here and there, that's all. It's a hobby and fun to learn more every day. Having said this, i feel very lucky and fortunate to have met people that thaught me a few things and let me learn (by touch, feel , "smell", etc in reality) more of certain very rare items. Handling for example awards with diamonds is a magical thing and no photo's ever can do justice to the real thing. Most of all though i enjoy to be near real objects and in the meantime try to learn whatever is possible. My interest is also pretty wide ranging from small WHW badges to high end medals, it's all history and all fun to study. Regarding Gahr items, has to be said (ignoring Thorsten's posts about them with a lot of blabla) that those are the rarest of the rare, one thing stands out above everything though and that is their quality. I've seen some horrible fakes and they can be spotted from a mile away. There have been some supposedly originals on Hermann Historica the past few years, but although some of those were very well made im definately not that sure they were real.

Now back to the horrid items Thorsten posted. Three of those can be written off immediatly, the one i marked with a few red spots on page 188 as most obvious inferior piece. Of course thorsten loves this kind of items and asks us to "be a good boy" just for showing an item like that. I think the youtubelink he posted on page 201 (post #3002) explains why he makes replies in this manner. He must be of the opinion that besides him it's impossible that someone can tell how any real items must look like.

Then now the last brooch he's been showing again and again, i don't like it for the following reasons:

- The quality of the details in the picture looks quite soft, not "hard" as i've seen on a piece that i think and consider as real. Why would details be so soft and different?

- The silver doesn't look much like good (similar) silver as the Gahr brooches are expected to be made from. It would really not surprise me (i actually think it is!) if the reverse would show neither a correct silvermark, nor a Gahr mark, as it looks to be made of different material (of silvercontent if silver at all).

- Looking at the brooch there is a matt (in english: dull?) surface "colour". This looks neither shiny nor correct patinated. It may be the photo but it's not something i like to see here. Of course better pictures would tell much more, but that seems to be too much to ask.

- The reverse pin for wearing looks to be quite heavy and robust, i would not expect that on a real Gahr brooch, but a more elegant pin that would be a bit thinner. Of course we have only these pictures taken under a strange angle to look at but it already shows enough to raise some doubt.

- The pin's angle and position is different as in the frauenwarte article (from edition 26 from the sixt annual year). One would expect that such high end items like this would be drawn quite accurately, there are more differences to the brooch from Thorsten. Of course the picture in the article is far from perfect, but any difference would have me very very cautious. Again we need more and better pictures to be able to study the brooch better. If someone is not showing it's pretty obvious why not...

- There seems to be a lack of a pin "catch-tube/closing device" near the end on both sides of the reverse, of course there may be different options (left/right closing, depending on the pics or position of the shown pin) possible here, but without any pictures it's suspicious to see a robust pin like this and one has to wonder how this looks at the reverse. Also i very much wonder what type of hinge there is on such a thick pin on what must originally be such an elegant brooch.

- On the shown picture the round border appears to be not everywhere evenly wide, is this an optical illusion because of the strange angle or reality of a bad reproduction?

- The 6 small lines on the outside border appear at the top very thin compared to the other seven sets of them.

- The case: a laugh....

Im not trying to sound like i know it all, also im not trying to lecture anyone, and i would wish anyone who would ever find such a piece all the best with such a special brooch for their collection, it would be amazing if such a piece was real. Without being able to study the brooch shown here better though, there will be questions and points for consideration like mentioned above.

If anyone has any other points of consideration or find my thoughts not right, please do post your thoughts. Discussion of items like this is what the whole collectorscommunity can benefit from.

best regards,
Gaston

**jabnus** · 01-16-2013, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Thorsten B.

Yeah, let him spread his profound BS.

It is totally beyond me why replies like this are still tolerated here when other people have been banned int he past for much less

**Thorsten B.** · 01-16-2013, 04:25 PM

Yes - you make me laugh by spreading your BS about my Gahr brooch.

**Dmv** · 01-16-2013, 04:42 PM

Thorsten, then why not post clear photo's of front and back?
Show us then what Gahr is all about and let's see if Gastons reasons are valid.

**Thorsten B.** · 01-16-2013, 04:55 PM

He can be happy that I posted pics of this unique SS cultural beauty at all.

**Anthony Evans** · 01-16-2013, 08:01 PM

What cultural beauty did you post? A silver broach that the design has been used during and after the third reich? Or the cabinet made by the dhw? Still waiting for anything SS culture related

**Thorsten B.** · 01-17-2013, 03:21 AM

My original Gahr brooch IS an SS cultural highlight par excellence - You seem to know nothing about Gahr as well.

And just by the way:

When will YOU start to post any SS cultural beauty here?

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