Post your unidintified vehicle photos here.

[jmark]

And another towing a 3.7cm PaK. Same unit.

I really appreciate your help.
Jason

- - -

[S Ballantyne]

second one

Hi there,

The second one is a Kfz 17 radio car towing a Pak 36. This version was made by Auto Union, it is most commonly referred to as a Horch, which was part of the Auto Union, and made a lot of these vehicles.

It is actually based on the 'm gl Einheits Pkw', or medium cross-country Uniform car, which was used as the base for many German roles, including Kfz 12, Kfz 15 and Kfz 17.

The first one looks like a Wanderer W23 convertable to me, also part of Auto Union with DKW, Horch and Audi (hence the four rings of Audi on modern cars), but I will look closer at that, and Bill will probably tell us in no time...

Cheers
Steve

[Bill Murray]

Steve is correct on both counts.

The civilian car is a Wanderer W23.

It is 0521 hours here so I was a bit late.

Bill

[s.pak]

hello all,
mercedes or not ?



someone can identify this Pkw ?
Hans ?

thanks patrick

[s.pak]

and this ? certainly one auto union Pkw but which, Horch, Wanderer, Audi ?



and which unit marking ?

thanks patrick

[Bill Murray]

Hallo Patrick:

My wife is calling me to dinner but a quick answer of sorts.

The second car is, I believe, a Hanomag Sturm, not one of the Auto Union types. This based on the five ventilation louvres on the side of the motor hood.

The other may be some sort of Benz but I have not had time to look through the reference books just yet.

Bill

[Holger_Erdmann]

Hello Patrick, hello Bill,

I'm not sure about the first one. It could really be a Mercedes Benz but I'm not sure about the type.
The second one is in my opinion an Adler Diplomat 3G, year of construction 1934.

Regards, Holger.

[jmark]

Hi there,

The second one is a Kfz 17 radio car towing a Pak 36. This version was made by Auto Union, it is most commonly referred to as a Horch, which was part of the Auto Union, and made a lot of these vehicles.

It is actually based on the 'm gl Einheits Pkw', or medium cross-country Uniform car, which was used as the base for many German roles, including Kfz 12, Kfz 15 and Kfz 17.

The first one looks like a Wanderer W23 convertable to me, also part of Auto Union with DKW, Horch and Audi (hence the four rings of Audi on modern cars), but I will look closer at that, and Bill will probably tell us in no time...

Cheers
Steve

Thanks a million, Steve and Bill.

[Bill Murray]

Upon further research, I think Holger has gotten the better of me.

I also now think the second car is an Adler Diplomat.

To have to make a quick response just because I was called to dinner by my wife is a very bad excuse

I will try to be more measured in my responses in the future.

Bill

[s.pak]

thanks Bill and Holger

ok for the Diplomat G3 (cab 2 turen) I did not seek in the right direction.

for the first, if is Mercedes hans will find certainly the model .

patrick

[S Ballantyne]

Merc

Hi guys,

In the absence of Hans I'll take a quick wager on the Mercedes...

Mercedes-Benz 290

Hopefully I'm in the right ballpark.

Cheers
Steve

[Bill Murray]

Hi Patrick:

For the reasons listed below, I believe your first vehicle to possibly be a Horch 830, not a Mercedes.

As a bit of an excercise, I will take you through my "process" to try to ID vehicles, cars or trucks.

Front Bumper:
While of a similar design to the Mercedes, this one has no chrome (and it does not seem to be chrome painted over but rather the bumper support is painted over) and the Horch cars had a very similar bumper configuration.

Horns:
Almost all Mercedes photos I have in books or elsewhere only show one horn. Most Horch have two horns although they are usually mounted higher up on the front wings/fenders.

Curve of front wings/fenders:
Always a problem with upper class German cars as so many of them were fitted with custom bodies. The photo you have posted could fit either car but certainly can be found on a lot of Horch cars.

Headlamp mounting:
Every photo that I have seen of Mercedes 290 cars have the two headlamps mounted on a bar, not on pedestals in the front wing/fender as we have here. Horch cars have their headlamps mounted as in your photo.

Radiator/Hood emblem:
Very hard to see in your photo but it does not seem to be the famous Mercedes star but looks much closer to the then current Horch emblem.

Accent moulding on side of motor hood:

Thinner than on Mercedes cars but very pronounced and ending in a curve as it meets the bottom of the windscreen. Very typical for Horch cars.

Windscreen wipers:
Probably 95% of all Mercedes photos I have seen have the windscreen wipers mounted at the top of the windscreen. About the same % of Horch cars have them mounted as in your photo, at the bottom of the windscreen.

Shape of windscreen.
Again, very close, but this car seems to have the typical Horch drooping curve at the bottom edges which is more pronounced than on the 290 Mercedes.

As always, I can be wrong, but at least I spent some time on the answer rather than shooting too quickly as I did on the Adler


Here is one photo from the Russian photofile site and there is a better one for sale on ebay just now but I don't want to use a current sale item on the forum.

Bill

[s.pak]

hi bill,
i agree with you, it's certainly one horch 830R
once again I did not seek where it was necessary
secondly, i have the solution under my eyes, because the photograph which you posted is mine, the purchaser of this photograph on e-bay is me

thanks again.
patrick

[Bill Murray]

Happy Sunday, Patrick:

Caught again......at least you know I have good taste, I only loot the very best. I always look for a winning bid from you as I know the photos will be useful for reference.

The other Horch photo I mentioned is still for sale on ebay.de and I will try to link the auction here. It is a tourer version and meets the ID tips much closer than your sedan photo.

Bill
http://cgi.ebay.de/033-5x-Orig-Foto-...d=p3286.c0.m14

[s.pak]

this time it's realy one Mercedes (star logo on the wheels) but what is the model ?



patrick