What(?) happened at the SOS An $18K SS uniform stolen.

[tanker]

I think playing this out on the forum is not doing justice. Unless the parties are too embarrassed to address what REALLY was said and how it transpired, it is going to be mostly one sided to feel sorry for the seller. As I stated earlier, the fault lies in the helper and owner. Before the show, they should have had a game plan on items and what should be done in the event a sale of dollar items.
I am not taking any sides, but if it was not clearly marked on the price where the helper had to call for a price, then it falls on the seller/helper if they did not make it clear what the price was. Whether the buyer knew what it was or how much experience he has, it is NOT his responsibility to tell the seller he does not have the right price. You can bet this won't happen again.
Ron

[tgn]

I feel sorry for both parties. Spencer for his loss of money, and John for the loss of his integrity.

Tom

[jacquesf]

I feel sorry for both parties. Spencer for his loss of money, and John for the loss of his integrity.

Tom

Who needs integrity if you can have Nazi stuff. J

[Operation Cobra]

I think playing this out on the forum is not doing justice. Unless the parties are too embarrassed to address what REALLY was said and how it transpired, it is going to be mostly one sided to feel sorry for the seller. As I stated earlier, the fault lies in the helper and owner. Before the show, they should have had a game plan on items and what should be done in the event a sale of dollar items.
I am not taking any sides, but if it was not clearly marked on the price where the helper had to call for a price, then it falls on the seller/helper if they did not make it clear what the price was. Whether the buyer knew what it was or how much experience he has, it is NOT his responsibility to tell the seller he does not have the right price. You can bet this won't happen again.
Ron

Initially I agreed with you Tanker. How many times have we all got a bargain and trotted off feeling really good about it. My only criticism is that the buyer was a dealer involved in this business and i guess someone who knew the seller. Everyone knows everyone at this show. I guess it all depends on whether the buyer was aware of it true value and took advantage of the fact the seller was not at the table. if there was malice afortethought then thats a different story if not win some loose some I guess. I am on the fence on this one.

[tanker]

I agree with you but until we hear (and we may never) form the actual parties involved we don't really know what transpired. If we are to believe what was posted before that the helper called and got a figure of 18 and if the helper was unsure what that meant, he SHOULD have asked Spencer again to be more specific. Never ASSUME anything. If the buyer and seller new each other and IF the helper told Spencer that then he should have plainly said what the exact price was.
And this, why wasn't eh price clearly marked on the tunic? Are pieces unmarked and you just offer prices like an auction. Something is missing in the story.

[TP Alexander]

Would it be different if the seller had been Craig Gottlieb?
I would like to think the the answer would be no.

Now if Snyder came back from the dead or Pawel Nowak materialized from thin air, and they were the seller, I think the buyer would have had drinks bought for him for the rest of his life!

[ebj]

I personally wouldn’t have done what the guy did and I even hate to say it but I don’t see much difference between this guy and a lot of “motel buy guys”. It may be a little different now that there’s the internet but before it was a lot of fun just to send the old lady in with a rare dagger with the story that her Daddy brought it home from the war and get their free appraisal and “Top prices paid”. This hobby has always suffered from a lack of morals. Sure there are some good guys but I sad to say they are few and far between.

How about when the old lady who brings a rare dagger that was brought back from WW2 by her late husband into a motel buy and is told it isn't worth much and is offered a pittance? Is that somehow different? How are "top prices" defined?

[Brian R]

I still can’t believe that, as rare as that tunic is, it would be worth $18K with those holes. Did he really take a loss based on that asking price?

To be clear, would he have gotten $18k? Or more like $15K? Granted, $15K is not $1,800, but I’m wondering if the loss is as great as $16K.

[Brian R]

This is not about finding something that was priced under market value by the seller. We all like it when that happens.

This was priced at $18,000 by the dealer and MISTAKENLY sold for $1,800. There is a difference.

I completely agree with Jerry.

I also agree with Don and Tim’s points about the seller. Things would be different if this was Gottlieb, Snyder or even Bill Shea. I know Shea is not in the same category as those other guys, but I think there are plenty of guys here who would like to see him on the short end for once.

And, this whole thing brings up the question... where is the line drawn? It’s ok to buy a Round 3 or Schinkel EK2 from an unsuspecting dealer selling, what he thinks, are simple unmarked EKs. But what if he had a combined Pilot/Observer Badge with his regular Pilot Badges? Or a real RK with a bunch of fakes? Should someone buy it and get the deal or tell him? Where does it go from lucky score - knowledge is power - to a rip-off?

[TP Alexander]

I completely agree with Jerry.

I also agree with Don and Tim’s points about the seller. Things would be different if this was Gottlieb, Snyder or even Bill Shea. I know Shea is not in the same category as those other guys, but I think there are plenty of guys here who would like to see him on the short end for once.

And, this whole thing brings up the question... where is the line drawn? It’s ok to buy a Round 3 or Schinkel EK2 from an unsuspecting dealer selling, what he thinks, are simple unmarked EKs. But what if he had a combined Pilot/Observer Badge with his regular Pilot Badges? Or a real RK with a bunch of fakes? Should someone buy it and get the deal or tell him? Where does it go from lucky score - knowledge is power - to a rip-off?

Come to think of it, a year or two ago, someone got a fantastic deal on a gold Tank Destruction Badge.
No one had any word but praise for the buyer!!

[bobgee526]

Without taking sides on the transaction, with regards to the seller/helper relationship, I am reminded of that famous line in "Cool Hand Luke" - "What we have here is a failure to communicate." "What's the price?" the helper asked the seller on the phone. "18" says the seller. And the story goes on from there! Oh My!

[Steve Turner]

Hi guys,

I saw at SOS the same thing this year as every other year where the dealers run around the show before it opens buying up every "underpriced" item to re-sell to normal collectors who don't have dealer/helper passes either a few hours later or the following week on their website.

I'm having a hard time finding sympathy for a dealers who have helpers at the table so they can go scoop up their own deals.

As customers are you really suppose to feel bad when a dealers who flip items regularly for profit accidentally underprices something?

I would have returned the item as it sounds like the helper made a mistake. But I also find it kind of sad when dealers come here to vent their bad deals and try to get support from collectors. Pretty much every deal gone bad thread I have seen posted in the last few years have all been dealer to dealer transactions.

Regards,
-Steve

[footiefan]

How many buyers are going to return a bargain when it is presented to them , doesnt matter who the seller or buyer is...as they say "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail"

Seems to me just sour grapes as to try and get the guy to return the tunic, sale is a sale as soon as the money changes hands...it is a militaria fair at the end of the day

Bargain of the day has to go to the buyer Im affraid

[Mr.Jerry D]

If Spencer had priced this at $1,800 then tough for him. But he did not.
This scenario was not the same as finding an undervalued item. This was a piece that was originally priced correctly originally (I know as I had a chance to buy it) that was later misquoted by his helpers (obviously younger people).

And at least for me, if I bought something from Gottlieb's helper and they made an honest pricing mistake, and sought me out I would give it back.

I guess some of us just think different.

[tanker]

NO, the helper and seller failed to communicate as said earlier. You can put ethics or moral into it but in the end, the seller should have been there, educate his help and have everything clearly marked to avoid any misunderstanding. As the previous poster said, fail to prepare, prepare to fail.