What(?) happened at the SOS An $18K SS uniform stolen.

[DonC]

Would this thread exist if the seller had been Gottlieb?

Hell, Don, if it was about Craig it would be well over 40 pages by now!

Don

[Don D.]

If you're selling something, put a damned tag on it, and make sure it's legible. If I walk up to a table and don't see stuff marked, I walk away. That's it. I can't think of any good reason to engage in the practice, and this whole episode is just another reason to avoid it.

They don't like to do this. They like the option of sizing you up to see how much of a sucker you are.

[DonC]

Snagging the tunic for the price quoted is hardly a crime. Lying about selling it for a $200 profit is straight-up cowardly BS.

Don

[Patchcollector]

I don't collect nazi stuff,just have been following this thread with the same kind of morbid,but fascinated interest that is usually found at car accident scenes,as probably most here are.Like others,I'm curious to know what the original selling price was from the earliest owners.I'm talking the pre-10K stuff..

A couple of thoughts occurred to me while reading through this tome;

I think greed is the key word here.Greed fuels some dealers that try and get the lowest price from those they fleece,er,I mean,buy from and then try and reap tremendous profits from their huge markups,which in turn fuels the greed that pushes some buyers to get the lowest possible price,no matter what the circumstances.

Some here have mentioned "karma".Perhaps the "karma" has already occurred?

[Marc Shaffer]

In a room full of known fakers who have ripped off honest collectors with FAKES how is this NOT a surprise ?

\
Bhhha hhaaa hhaaaa haaa!!! Good one Owen. Right on the mula too. I wonder whost thou makest reference to?

Sorry that an apparent nice guy got screwed, but if people stood for integrity, there would be a lot of dealers outta bizzzness and some collectors put in their proper place! I need to get another set of hands and toes to count the number of times I got screwed by not just dealers but dirty collectors leading me wrong when I first started collecting.

Hey... anybody remember Manions???? A clearing house run by cruddy dealers where cruddy collectors could unload their trash as originals.

[Stangell]

Hell, Don, if it was about Craig it would be well over 40 pages by now!

Don

Still don't understand this bashing about Craig...

If you're selling something, put a damned tag on it, and make sure it's legible. If I walk up to a table and don't see stuff marked, I walk away. That's it. I can't think of any good reason to engage in the practice, and this whole episode is just another reason to avoid it.

And if you have people "helping" you making business, god damn it make sure that your assistand knows what the h*ll they are selling and what stuff is worth!

Again, learing money for this seller.

[nirvana]

They don't like to do this. They like the option of sizing you up to see how much of a sucker you are.

That is 100% true, and that's why I won't touch those tables. If you're going to treat me like an idiot to rob, you can keep your shiny trinkets and I'll move on to the next dealer who works above board. There will always be more sparkly crap a few tables down to lure money from my pocket.

I can't and won't judge the morality of the people involved in this. Its not my place, and I won't pretend to be above reproach. But my sympathy is limited for all parties. If you're going to buy something under a questionable circumstance, people will look at you and shake their heads. It comes with the territory, accept it. But, if you don't have the decency and sense to mark prices on your stuff, that's an issue. If you leave the table to someone who is so unaware of things as to not notice a 90% price difference, you're playing with fire, and getting burned comes with that sometimes.

[Jeff V]

Isn't this somewhat similar to years ago when Bob Coleman bought a brownshirt at the SOS that was named to Hitler. The seller did not know that and sold it priced as a unnamed example. Should Bob Coleman should have told the seller "hold on here this is named to Hitler, do you want to charge me a lot more?"
No one was going to buy that tunic for 18K.

[djpool]

If you're selling something, put a damned tag on it, and make sure it's legible. If I walk up to a table and don't see stuff marked, I walk away. That's it. I can't think of any good reason to engage in the practice, and this whole episode is just another reason to avoid it.

I agree and if you can't do that then stay at your table to answer questions. If you can't do that then leave someone in charge. The representative should be given instructions on what to do. If he/she is only there to take messages then so be it. If he/she is authorized to make sales on the owners behalf then live with it. Don't blame someone else when things get screwed up. You think that a potential $18k sale would be important enough to bring the owner back to the table, barring any real emergency.

It's so frustrating when you find something you like and the person authorized to sell items is gone. In this case the buyer inquired about the price, the assistant called his boss to verify the price, the assistant acting on the owners behalf negotiated the price with the buyer, and exchanged cash to finalize the deal.

[macleod]

Isn't this somewhat similar to years ago when Bob Coleman bought a brownshirt at the SOS that was named to Hitler. The seller did not know that and sold it priced as a unnamed example. Should Bob Coleman should have told the seller "hold on here this is named to Hitler, do you want to charge me a lot more?"
No one was going to buy that tunic for 18K.

No one in their right miind that is.....

[Andy A]

I'm going to preface this post by saying that my comments are more in general, than specific to this incident, but relevant. There is in law a concept of "unjust enrichment", meaning that if a person uses their superior knowledge to make an unfair profit, the seller has recourse. In this case, the premise would be more applicable to the transaction between the original owner and the person that sold the uniform to Spencer, providing that the prices posted in this thread are correct. If the buyer who purchased the item from its original owner could be considered an expert and was shown to have paid far less than the items value, the original owner could make a case that they were wronged and deserved compensation. It would be a stretch to apply this to the buyer at the show, particularly as the transaction was between two knowledgeable people. Some of you might remember the story of the Native American "Chief's Blanket" several years ago. Or, the items purchased from a relative of a famous Confederate general. So, with the publicity this is getting, there could be repercussions for all three of the players in this deal.

For what it's worth,in my opinion, despite Spencer having to take his share of the blame, the buyer should sell him back the uniform. If nothing else, for the sake of the table helper who made an honest mistake.

[spoof]

i'm going to preface this post by saying that my comments are more in general, than specific to this incident, but relevant. There is in law a concept of "unjust enrichment", meaning that if a person uses their superior knowledge to make an unfair profit, the seller has recourse. In this case, the premise would be more applicable to the transaction between the original owner and the person that sold the uniform to spencer, providing that the prices posted in this thread are correct. If the buyer who purchased the item from its original owner could be considered an expert and was shown to have paid far less than the items value, the original owner could make a case that they were wronged and deserved compensation.

Bingo!

[tgn]

I'm going to preface this post by saying that my comments are more in general, than specific to this incident, but relevant. There is in law a concept of "unjust enrichment", meaning that if a person uses their superior knowledge to make an unfair profit, the seller has recourse. In this case, the premise would be more applicable to the transaction between the original owner and the person that sold the uniform to Spencer, providing that the prices posted in this thread are correct. If the buyer who purchased the item from its original owner could be considered an expert and was shown to have paid far less than the items value, the original owner could make a case that they were wronged and deserved compensation. It would be a stretch to apply this to the buyer at the show, particularly as the transaction was between two knowledgeable people. Some of you might remember the story of the Native American "Chief's Blanket" several years ago. Or, the items purchased from a relative of a famous Confederate general. So, with the publicity this is getting, there could be repercussions for all three of the players in this deal.

For what it's worth,in my opinion, despite Spencer having to take his share of the blame, the buyer should sell him back the uniform. If nothing else, for the sake of the table helper who made an honest mistake.

I agree with you.

Tom

[tgn]

Isn't this somewhat similar to years ago when Bob Coleman bought a brownshirt at the SOS that was named to Hitler. The seller did not know that and sold it priced as a unnamed example. Should Bob Coleman should have told the seller "hold on here this is named to Hitler, do you want to charge me a lot more?"
No one was going to buy that tunic for 18K.

Just to clarify, it wasn't a brownshirt. It was a retailored NSDAP tunic and the Hitler association was faked.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Sharks

They don't like to do this. They like the option of sizing you up to see how much of a sucker you are.

I had a funny laugh at the Show, that kind of relates to this. I asked a fellow about something on his table . . . and could tell right away, he was sizing me up. What I didn't know, is he couldn't see my OVMS Member badge. It had turned around, backwards - and tucked under part of my shirt. I could [literally!] see him looking me up and down - and fixating on the other badge I was wearing. It was one of those pin-on, "temporary" badges you get - when you forget your good one. I had to wear that in addition to standard badge, as I forgot to put the 2018 sticker on last Fall.

Guess he thought I might have been a little less informed . . . and asked me if I knew anything about what I was looking at. All I said was, "A little" . . . and then he dove right in, shoveling out the sales-pitch & scam - to the best of his ability. It almost made me cringe, some of the stuff he was saying. But I took it in stride, set his trinkets down, and told him I might be back. The funny part came about, when I stood up from dropping his trinkets back on the table - and my Member badge came back into his view. That's when I could see the, "Oh-Sh!t" look in his eyes - recognizing he wasn't really working with someone that just fell into the Show, off the stupid truck.

For me, I guess that is another part of the Show we all have come to Love and adore . . . you certainly get all "kinds" - and there's no denying it.