Announcement

**Disco Partisan** · 04-08-2016, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

Funny how Disco P did not reply to direct FACT of faking transaction to PVL.

"kammo man",
how many times do I need to ask you the same basic question: "Why are they fake?" over and over again just in order to get your attention and finally some response? Because you have NEVER ever given us ANY single evidence WHY they are FAKE in your opinion. NEVER.
All what you ever said about these covers was always the same "they are fake" with no explanations given WHY they are actually fake. You never bothered to provide any evidence, or fact, or visual comparisons to originals. You always only claim that "they are fake" and state funny things like "look it is modern sewing, new clips, fake cover" without ever backing up your words with anything? nothing!

As a good example, below links to FOUR very different helmet covers that you claimed to be Lorenzo's fakes. Under each of these four helmet covers are your comments about them. Note: ALL of your comments. there are no more from you. Read it for yourself and tell me how I supposed believe these your words without any supporting arguments?

1. Helmet cover posted by Max Wünsche (Post#5 http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=841522)
"kammo man" comment(Post#7):

Originally posted by kammo man;

Cloth real. Sewing fake.

kammo man(Post#9):

Originally posted by kammo man;

This is a typical Lorenzo Italian helmet cover.
He sold many of these.
Some even have Kelly Hicks COA."

2. Helmet cover posted by Peter v L (Post#55 http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=841522&page=4)
"kammo man" comment(Post#63):

Originally posted by kammo man;

100% fake helmet cover.

3. Helmet cover posted by Bax (Post#4 http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=853942)
"kammo man" comment(Posts# 5, 7, and 11):

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

This is a typical advanced Lorenzo helmet cover that is made from real cloth.
The sewing is modern in a very precise way .....something NOT found in real covers.
The clips are new.
The lip is wrong.
These covers are designed to fool the collector who has little or no experience of handling real covers but made by Lorenzo as part of his long scam.
owen

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

Lorenzo made a VERY poor attempt to copy it from the book using his bad tape which is NOTHING like the original.
Disco,
the sad fact remains he's a faker who makes bad covers.

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

His covers got better over the years that's why they are a bit different but the general style stays the same.

4. Helmet cover posted by horsetrainer (Post# 27-34 http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=853942&page=3)
"kammo man" comment(Posts#37):

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

The 3-4 is another fake cover 100%

kammo man , you never proved these covers to be fake. In fact, you have never even tried to prove it as you always only claimed it with no single attempt to support your words. I wonder how in the world it is possible for anyone to seriously take your comments

**RobertE** · 04-08-2016, 04:11 PM

I would also be interested in how Owen determined Lorenzo was MAKING them and then deliberately frauding collectors through bad trades to enhance his collection. An opinion, no matter how broadly it's shared with fellow conspirators, is still just an opinion.

So far no proof has been offered these items allegedly offered by Lorenzo are actual replicas. Vague references to stitching, cloth grain orientation, and other features are useless in a field of collecting where detail is everything.

Trying to turn the tables by demanding how apparently real items are real is transparent. Even if Disco were to take the bait, every fact would be dismissed with general comments such as Disco just posted - they mean nothing to serious collectors.

This expose of how Lorenzo made and sold fake covers - wittingly, with intent to deceive - is no expose at all. It has not been proven he made anything, nor that he sold anything KNOWING it was fake. And if every dealer who took in seemingly real items and sold or traded them were to be treated like this, the list of the guilty would be quite long.

My opinion - back off. This is a failed attempt to nail Lorenzo for every fake SS camo item emanating from Europe, but absent proof, is just a boring read.

s/f Robert

**Palmenmuster** · 04-08-2016, 04:14 PM

I will probably have a meeting with Bax next week and compare his cover with other originals.
Tom

**Palmenmuster** · 04-08-2016, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by RobertE View Post

I would also be interested in how Owen determined Lorenzo was MAKING them and then deliberately frauding collectors through bad trades to enhance his collection. An opinion, no matter how broadly it's shared with fellow conspirators, is still just an opinion.

So far no proof has been offered these items allegedly offered by Lorenzo are actual replicas. Vague references to stitching, cloth grain orientation, and other features are useless in a field of collecting where detail is everything.

Trying to turn the tables by demanding how apparently real items are real is transparent. Even if Disco were to take the bait, every fact would be dismissed with general comments such as Disco just posted - they mean nothing to serious collectors.

This expose of how Lorenzo made and sold fake covers - wittingly, with intent to deceive - is no expose at all. It has not been proven he made anything, nor that he sold anything KNOWING it was fake. And if every dealer who took in seemingly real items and sold or traded them were to be treated like this, the list of the guilty would be quite long.

My opinion - back off. This is a failed attempt to nail Lorenzo for every fake SS camo item emanating from Europe, but absent proof, is just a boring read.

s/f Robert

I agree, keep it simple and stick to facts not hearsay. No-one can claim to be an expert and know the FACT unless giving the cover during the war.
Tom

**kammo man** · 04-08-2016, 04:49 PM

Disco
You are clearly on the side of the fakers in this hobby.
Owen

**Disco Partisan** · 04-08-2016, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

Disco
You are clearly on the side of the fakers in this hobby.
Owen

Yeh? Let's see..

First, better please tell why have you got so obsessed with the "super-fake helmet covers"? Why are you talking about them all the time for years? Maybe it has always been one of your favorite dark dreams? you know make ones.. And it is perfectly understandable, you have been involved in creating SS camo repros half of your live. Everybody know that. You are a professional maker of ss camo. Right? That's how/where you learned original VS reproductions. Big money and easy to do for an expert like you. Then we have here your friend "horsetrainer" who is also involved in making and selling SS-camo-repros. Also it is clear that you two are buddies - if not why would he be so blatantly lying for you (in this very thread) about his trade-deal with Lorenzo - see Post#106 where his lie is exposed. And since he lied so easily here, it is clear that fooling people is not a problem for him. Isn't it a bit quite strange that a person who has been making repros(in other word fakes) now magically finds a hundred of "original unissued helmet covers" in some storage factory in Bavaria, Germany ? For example I personally find it strange especially he(horsetrainer) got caught on the lie in this thread. It becomes even more strange to find out that two of you (both ss-camo-repro makers) are together "buddy-buddy". What exactly unites/binds you? Kammo-man you obviously like gossips .. Here is one for your that is around: people say that you and your friend "horsetrainer" made those covers together. Nothing new for you - people talk.. because people know something. I am not sure of it is true but I won't be surprised if it is true for my stated reasons above. Plus while "horsetrainer" is selling covers, you are actively promoting them (see your quote below). How can you prove that is not true and all these "Bavarian hoard covers" are not fake indeed (from this thread):

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=780665

Post#17 : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=7094334

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

The covers from the hoard are all fantastic.
The oak B ones were always really hard to find.
owen

Post#12 : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=7308796

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

Contact horse trader (horsetrainer) and get one of his.
They are real.
owen

1. So both of you are ss-camo professional makers
2. Both are buddies-friends to the level when one is lying for another like in this thread.
3. One (horsetrainer) who is proved to be a lier is selling "magically found 100+ original covers"
4. Another one (Kammo man) is clearly promoting the sell.
5. Kammo man has been obsessed with "super-fakes" for years

See how it works?

**Jolly Roger** · 04-08-2016, 06:58 PM

Disco, are you claiming that horsetrainers covers are fake?! And at the same time claiming that Lorenzos stuff is real?! What is going wrong here?!

This is really a messed up hobby and good people like owen are getting insulted for putting the facts together...

**kammo man** · 04-08-2016, 10:45 PM

Disco
Your last post clearly shows a snap shot of a piece of your mind that is unbalanced and a bit odd.

Please seek some psychotherapy immediately

**SJP** · 04-09-2016, 01:45 AM

I really don't see what others see...K man has described what he believes is fake (IMHO) and why.
Cheers Steve

**RobertE** · 04-09-2016, 02:03 AM

I think the witch hunting is uncalled for, not matter who is doing it.

Steve, if all Owen did was "described what he believes is fake (IMHO) and why", I would not be involved in this thread at all.

He's not stating that he "believes" something is fake, he is flatly declaring it to be so and accusing an ex-member of making them and knowingly distributing them for profit. More importantly, he is not saying why they are fake.

I don't think Owen is any faker, and has helped many in this community with SS items. This fixation with Lorenzo's guilt in a grand fraud scheme is without basis, however, considering what's been presented here.

s/f Robert

**kammo man** · 04-09-2016, 03:42 AM

Robert
I will repeat for your benefit

Real cloth wartime

That's where anything real ends

Modern sewing throughout cover using a style that is nothing like a war time manufactured item using modern thread.

Fake clip

Artificial wear throughout item

Modern HB lip cloth

Please look at the cover that was posted at the start of this thread or look at
The linked items in that thread

It's so simple and plain to see the fakes.

The comments about no one learning anything in this thread or that it's waste of time are short sighted due to the simple fact that many members have suffered at the hands of Lorenzo and it should not be brushed off lightly.

Since this thread has begun I have had at least 15 PMs of support and others from victims who wish to remain nameless of Lorenzo.
That's the real shame here....

The nameless victims who are stuck holding worthless covers

**RobertE** · 04-09-2016, 04:01 AM

Thanks for the amplification, Owen. From the photos, I'd say it's impossible to determine if the thread wartime or not. Clips, maybe.

The victims should post their covers for review - these aren't murder cases and there is no mafia coming after them if they post their own details, with photos. Unless they intend to try to resell them as real (or really still believe they are real), what is the harm in posting them?

Having actual items to discuss and the actual people who had the dealings would at least establish that fake items were sold.

It would not prove that Lorenzo made them, or that he sold them knowing they were fake.

For the record, I don't know Lorenzo and he may be guilty of all the things he is being accused of. This thread, however, does not present anything but opinion against him, or the items purported to be fake and made by him.

s/f Robert

**ironcross13** · 04-09-2016, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by kammo man View Post

Robert
I will repeat for your benefit

Real cloth wartime

That's where anything real ends

Modern sewing throughout cover using a style that is nothing like a war time manufactured item using modern thread.

Fake clip

Artificial wear throughout item

Modern HB lip cloth

Please look at the cover that was posted at the start of this thread or look at
The linked items in that thread

It's so simple and plain to see the fakes.

The comments about no one learning anything in this thread or that it's waste of time are short sighted due to the simple fact that many members have suffered at the hands of Lorenzo and it should not be brushed off lightly.

Since this thread has begun I have had at least 15 PMs of support and others from victims who wish to remain nameless of Lorenzo.
That's the real shame here....

The nameless victims who are stuck holding worthless covers

Been watching this thread as many others have..

maybe some pictures side by side to compare would help people see.
with arrows and circles on each part that is wrong.

So one fake cover next to a real cover. I think this would help clear up the questions and make it easy for people to see the difference..

**PZKG** · 04-09-2016, 06:05 AM

I do beleive that is what palmenmuster (Tom) is trying to achieve.

Also the cover that started this thread is poking my eyes in a hurtfull manner.
Not a camo expert though, but have handled a couple of Norwegian vet covers and I like them to look like this: http://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=4256

An abit too expensive one looker which I would have bought if I was not locked in a larger deal right now.

Mads

**leib1** · 04-09-2016, 10:50 AM

Why would Owen put a fake on here going through point by point to show you why it's a fake ?
It will only help the fakers to improve there product.I think there is enough info for you to know what to look for to help spot the fake,or just don't swap anything from Lorenzo

Announcement

Camo coming from Lorenzo - Helmet cover

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread