Great Photos at Holocaust Museum

[Scott Powell]

Explain that to the crying mother of her dead child regardless of who or for what reasons the child was killed.

Good luck!

the germans shed no tears for the jews,none at all. nor for the poles,the slavs ,the russians or the gypsies they murdered by the millions in the camps. they shed no tears for the families they seperated,and no tears were shed for those whom they butchered with their 'medical ' experiments.

[Gregory Koepp]

Oh let's get off the who did what before this posting ends.....

greg koepp

[bnz. 42]

"We Americans can do no wrong." ALL GOVERMENTS DO EVIL THINGS! it always has happened and always will...

Glenn

Agree,
B-52s dropped 8 million tons of bombs on Vietnam(300 tons for every living there), just little over THREE times the amount of ALL bombs combined dropped in whole WW2.

[Felix]

Felix, And that is why you have a problem examining history. You have to step back and look at the whole picture. One was a policy of extermination of a race, the other was a policy to win a war. Had we been after the former there would be no Germans today. After all, they lay prostate after their collapse and we could have done anything we wanted. Indeed there were some that wanted to exact revenge and turn them all into farmers tilling the land with no indiginious industry.
Had we wanted to erase them we would have but even the Russians, who had a real reason to get rid of them, found it better to keep Germans around.

Funny thing is Hitler tried to do the same thing to the Germans with his order to destroy everything which Speer disobeyed.

The German people backed Hitler and in the end drew the ****ty end of the stick, fact, history, the end. War is hell.

Those who fail to see the sufferings of both sides in a conflict I would say have to step back and really search their inner sides and their respect for lives and human beings. Those who justify killings, by purpose, of those who had nothing to do with the war, or just that they had the wrong nationality, colour of skin, religion or what ever defintely have some problems with morality and respect of life. I does defintely not hold water to hate all Germans because they were born in the "wrong country".

So, I think you have to ask yourself what a life is worth and whats justifies one to kill without distinction. Military targets are of course ok, but clear civilian targets is a WAR CRIME what ever you might think of history, or like to think you can tell others what moral is ok or not. Well, to justify war crimes is not anything I would recommend. That disqualifies you D. Doering big time. I chose to see sufferings on both sides.

In every glourious military victory there are countless of tears on each side, and those who go one way without any respect for human sufferings, regardless of side, do need to go deeper into their own personalities and ask the relevant questions.

Youre one of them.

"Felix" - N. Hansson

P.s I do agree with one thing you wrote, war is hell!

[Felix]

the germans shed no tears for the jews,none at all. nor for the poles,the slavs ,the russians or the gypsies they murdered by the millions in the camps. they shed no tears for the families they seperated,and no tears were shed for those whom they butchered with their 'medical ' experiments.

Was those crimes commited by the refugees gathered in Dresden and killed by the allied bomdings? Thats a war crime to kill civilians on purpose my fellow WAF member! And to make it extra pleasurefull, the russians came afterwards and gang raped the females left alive until most died or committed suicide! Maybe you support that. I dont.

Maybe its pointless to say that not all germans were guilty of murderer in the death camps and not all were fanatic nazis. They were just born in acountry were it all happened.

War is not a joyride, its hell as WAF member D. Doering told before. Thats true and the cries of the victims, regardsless of side, deserves respect.

[Felix]

Well, to make the loop complete I would like to say that the initial photos fueling this debate are quite interesting and fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

[Don D.]

P.s I do agree with one thing you wrote, war is hell!

Think what you want and cry for whomever, i've been to war and seen the ugly side of it. But don't rewrite history to make the germans be the victims. 20 million russians, 6 million jews, and 1 million others will only laugh at you in the end.

Let's just leave it at war is hell and hope mankind will wise up one day.

[bnz. 42]

Felix, many, many (maybe "most" is the right word here) Germans were fanatical Nazi's, not only Hitler . They were all excited that they are going to be "Masters of the World". I don't support what Allies did but I don't condemn them either. War is war, and Germans started it and were very cruel all the way.
BTW, after 60 millions killed Russians, what in the world would you expect from Russians after they took Berlin, plant flowers in Germany?

Was those crimes commited by the refugees gathered in Dresden and killed by the allied bomdings? Thats a war crime to kill civilians on purpose my fellow WAF member! And to make it extra pleasurefull, the russians came afterwards and gang raped the females left alive until most died or committed suicide! Maybe you support that. I dont.

Maybe its pointless to say that not all germans were guilty of murderer in the death camps and not all were fanatic nazis. They were just born in acountry were it all happened.

War is not a joyride, its hell as WAF member D. Doering told before. Thats true and the cries of the victims, regardsless of side, deserves respect.

[Scott Powell]

[/QUOTE=Felix;2256703]And to make it extra pleasurefull, the russians came afterwards and gang raped the females left alive until most died or committed suicide! Maybe you support that. I dont. [/QUOTE]


never said i supported any such thing. dont put words in my mouth or cast false aspersions. when people such as yourself pull tactics such as that it shows how futile your position is.
to compare abombing mission with the 'Final Solution' shows an ignorance of gargantuan proportions.



[/QUOTE]Maybe its pointless to say that not all germans were guilty of murderer in the death camps and not all were fanatic nazis. They were just born in acountry were it all happened.[/QUOTE]


again, never said all germans were responsible,lets stop the strawman arguments shall we? the allies didnt make it a policy to exterminate millions because of thier race,as did the germans. the bombings in dreseden were unfortunate,but these were an attempt to force hitlers hand and end the war. Hitler introduced Total War,why should sympathies be extended when it was refined and handed back to him?

[Felix]

Think what you want and cry for whomever, i've been to war and seen the ugly side of it. But don't rewrite history to make the germans be the victims. 20 million russians, 6 million jews, and 1 million others will only laugh at you in the end.

Let's just leave it at war is hell and hope mankind will wise up one day.

Please dont come with any talkings about that Im rewriting history because then your out on deeper water than you can handle! I know what happened and so does probaly you after all! War is hell and that we can agree on! The glorious victories are in the history books but there are sufferings no one talk about. The civilians in any conflict!
However if you chose to spit venom on me because I have respect for all life, regardless of nation, you got some deep problems with you moral! End of that!

Lets end this discussion and lets get back to topic about the photos. I find them interesting that they depict "normal" life of people involved horrible actions.

I guess one common thesis among phsycologists is that under the right circumstances people can commit the most horrible things. A reminder is what happened in Rwanda and ex Jugoslavia.

When will we ever learn?

"Felix" - N. hansson

[bnz. 42]

And to make it extra pleasurefull, the russians came afterwards and gang raped the females left alive .

Just to clarify things. Raping German fraus (within 3 days) was an official call from Zhukov in order to make Germans feel being "Masters of the World" better, and not because Russian soldiers were sex-maniacs.

[Felix]

Felix, many, many (maybe "most" is the right word here) Germans were fanatical Nazi's, not only Hitler . They were all excited that they are going to be "Masters of the World". I don't support what Allies did but I don't condemn them either. War is war, and Germans started it and were very cruel all the way.
BTW, after 60 millions killed Russians, what in the world would you expect from Russians after they took Berlin, plant flowers in Germany?

Who claimed 60 millions russians were killed by the nazis? I thought it was 20 millions. 60 Millions thats the ammount of people that were killed by the the representatives of the people in the Soviet union to ensure this regime would survive. Russia did suffer big time, no question about that. The germans did behave exceptionally cruel. However the behaviour of the red army entering Germany, as well as many countries like the Baltics etc, is a big shame spot in history. Many, many war crimes and crimes against civilians so cruel they even outdo what the Gemans did. Could not be defended by any decent person that got a normal brain. End of that!

As a side note when I spoke to my girlfriend from Belarus this summer she said, after I told her that I was interested in German WW2 things despite they are somewhat eveil; Its very interesting that everybody says the germans are so bad. When they came my grandmother told me they gave us food. When the russians took the land back they stole everyhting. Not any relevance to this thread, but its just one untold story.

Well gentlemen, I had enough for tonight. Need some sleep.

Take care,
"Felix" - N. Hansson

[Don D.]

spit venom on me

I don't know where you got that from and really don't care. Feel sorry for whomever you want. In the end Germany bore the guilt for starting the war, a war many germans hailed as long as they were winning.

I refuse to feel sorry because we won. Instead of harping on us why don't you harp on your government which sold iron ore to keep the german war machine going long after they would have collapsed if they had to rely on internal sources. Your steel killed untold 1000s of people. Cry for that.

[Felix]

Just to clarify things. Raping German fraus (within 3 days) was an official call from Zhukov in order to make Germans feel being "Masters of the World" better, and not because Russian soldiers were sex-maniacs.

So he should be brought to trial for severe crimes and rutten away in prison like the criminal he was! Can you even imagine how many innocent girls that were so destryed by those rapes they either died from injuries or coould not live with the pains and humiliation and hence commited suicide?

I can tell you BNZ 42 that I lost the love of my life because she got raped. If you ever try to make any jokes about this subject, or make this into something funny, you bring such big shame over yourself that I wish you leave this forum for ever!!! These things are not to be joked about, UNDERSTAND??

"Felix" - N. Hansson

[Felix]

I don't know where you got that from and really don't care. Feel sorry for whomever you want. In the end Germany bore the guilt for starting the war, a war many germans hailed as long as they were winning.

I refuse to feel sorry because we won. Instead of harping on us why don't you harp on your government which sold iron ore to keep the german war machine going long after they would have collapsed if they had to rely on internal sources. Your steel killed untold 1000s of people. Cry for that.

Please dont give me any **** for what happened in my country 25-30 years before I was born! I have not yet called you a typical stupid american and I will not do it. There are some pretty bad things the US is responsible for and I wont accuse you of that, ok? Lets not make this too personal, shall we?

Keep it clean!

"Felix" - N. Hansson