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    Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
    Hello all
    I think that's a good sound approach! I also think the documentation of the SS activities is a good start.It is true that a lot of info is yet to surface. Also liked the purchase order! Don't like the insults to fellow members however!
    Kevin
    Thanks Kevin. I don't have a hidden agenda, not trying to deceive anybody, trying to create a demand for a stash of these Dunkelgelb stahlhelms at SS prices...(crazy accusations )
    and as Dennis stated I don't own such a helmet (but have handled/seen these and always been hesitant to get one since they were tainted from the get-go...)

    Now with the internet it would be a good exercise to pool all of our thoughts, resources, international leads etc..and get to the the bottom of this mystery if we can...and if we cannot, oh well it was worth a try! Member Bubble was going to dig in some old archives for us after the holidays.

    Prague/Protektorat was a huge industrial source for the Reich war machine as we know (Tatra, Bata etc...) and a hotbed for SS presence and activities. (SS-Industry).

    The 1942 metal parts Purchase Order confirmation document from the supplier (who also supplied the helmet pins, 1943 ) is obviously a local procurement for a shoe factory (hobnails/heel horseshoes no doubt for boots) and therefor interesting as it proves that local sub suppliers were furnishing parts/raw-materials for local projects in the Protektorat during the war locally ...Makes sense!
    So liner pins, if indeed intended for a large refurbishment project of such DunkelGelb stahlhelmen, would have also been supplied during the war locally to meet those work shop needs. (and in 1943 based on the parts date, the year btw the entire SS-Polizei Division was transferred in full Division strength to Greece...the dates coincide?...coincidence perhaps, but the match is worth mentioning!).

    The General Gouvernement (occupied Poland) wirtschaftsindustrie-workshops example that I posted earlier proves that such supplies often came from local manufacturing sources and these depots were an extension of that activity, hence the size, no doubt massive and the Prgue Depot complex served as a main distribution center (not just a local needs city based troops depot).
    Therefor it makes sense for troops deployed in "special needs theatres" (tropical clothing, mountain gear) to get their kit from Prague, which also had an SS-Gebirgs pionier ausbildungs unit. SS-Ski boots also came from the depot installations, as shown being worn by Prague resistance fighters dresses in full Saharianas in 1945.


    The "SS-Bekleidungslager Prag" (SS-Clothing stores Prague) was in fact a complex of 4 installations, ("4 lager" it states) so a massive depot, which explains the amount of materials found in unissued condition, raided by resistance fighters in 1945 and post war some of it adopted by the Czech armed forces.
    There was also a "SS-Kleiderkasse" in Prague but that's for private purchases no doubt, like officer kit. They received an allowance for that!
    Last edited by NickG; 12-27-2014, 12:24 PM.

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      These helmets were originally intended for the new israeli state as the other equipment delivered there. But after the relations between Czechoslovakia and the new Israeli state got cold, these helmets remained in reserve. Later were issued to civil defens. Egypt, in 50, friend of Czechoslovakia instead of Israel, was equipped with up to date equipment instead of WW2 crap.

      Comment


        Thats Ridiculas!

        Hello all
        So your saying the Jewish survivors were gonna wear Nazi Helmets?!?! Jews and Egypt friends?!?! Dude where did your hear that?
        Kevin

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          Well, Israelis got plenty of stuff from Czechoslovakia in late 40's. Among others mg, kar, mp. Why not helmets?
          In late 50's Egyptians got tanks, migs and other equipment.

          Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
          Hello all
          So your saying the Jewish survivors were gonna wear Nazi Helmets?!?! Jews and Egypt friends?!?! Dude where did your hear that?
          Kevin

          Comment


            Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
            Hello all
            So your saying the Jewish survivors were gonna wear Nazi Helmets?!?! Jews and Egypt friends?!?! Dude where did your hear that?
            Kevin
            They used other German gear , why is a helmet more important than a German machine gun ? (which they used with loads of other Nazi stuff)

            Comment


              Interesting :

              https://books.google.be/books?id=Pmy...0czech&f=false

              Comment


                Originally posted by Deathshead View Post
                They used other German gear , why is a helmet more important than a German machine gun ? (which they used with loads of other Nazi stuff)
                Frank makes a good point, why not helmets? They sure did use loads of German equipment, mind you i cannot recall seeing many pics of jewish fighters wearing German lids, anyone got any photos?? That would be interesting

                Comment


                  Pictures

                  Hello all
                  I would love to see holocost survivors wearing "NAZI" helmets! Surely those pictures exist!
                  Kevin

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                    Back in 1948, some of the first airplanes bought by Israel were 10 ME109, bought from CZ: Israeli pilots were trained in CZ near Zatec.

                    Don't know about holocaust survivors wearing german helmets but jews fighters in Warsaw certainly did.

                    Quick resume in english of the Balak operation:

                    http://www.palyam.org/English/ArmsSh...choslovakia-en

                    CZ stopped supplying ISRAEL early 1949, before supplying Egypt a bit later.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Fred S; 12-28-2014, 10:28 AM.

                    Comment


                      Good stuff, now we are getting somewhere...yes clearly an arms trade between the 2 nations early post war existed.
                      I knew that already as I did own an MG34 at one time dated 1945 made by Brno swp45 (Waffenwerke Brünn 1945 production in CZ)
                      It had Israeli proof markings...(Star of David).

                      On the other hand the German helmet is the iconic symbol for German soldiers and probably not something the Israeli army would consider...not a chance...
                      Perhaps these helmets were rebuilt and offered as part of the arms deal and Israel, (expecting Czech pattern helmets) rejected these "nazi" lids...
                      Could be...I am open to that as a valid explanation why these exist...
                      Still questions.....but why 1943 liner pins...?. Left over ? Why the dome stamps on some?? Why DunkelGelb...left over war time paint?
                      Interesting theory though
                      Perhaps some Czech members can delve into this possibility, researching archives...are you from CZ, member Hinkle?
                      Last edited by NickG; 12-28-2014, 11:36 AM.

                      Comment


                        Why dome stamps... If these helmets are post war... a dome stamp added by someone to convince a buyer they are real, "Look it even has a dome stamp!" Dome stamps are easily faked.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Hinkle View Post
                          These helmets were originally intended for the new israeli state as the other equipment delivered there. But after the relations between Czechoslovakia and the new Israeli state got cold, these helmets remained in reserve. Later were issued to civil defens. Egypt, in 50, friend of Czechoslovakia instead of Israel, was equipped with up to date equipment instead of WW2 crap.
                          This sure makes more sense to me with the possible Israeli connection. Seems likely sale to israel that never happened. CZ sold them much equipment.
                          Jerry

                          Comment


                            Honestly speaking, the stamp can be easily reproduced. Nowadays, fakes are better than originals. I think, the yellow helmet is possible, yellow is used as a base color.

                            Comment


                              It is good point about Israeli use of German weapons from the CZ in 1948 and I agree that does pose a circumstantial connection.

                              But lets also consider the full spectrum of possibilities because they were buying and using German weapons in the Greek Civil War in 1946 onwards and in Indochina from 1945 onwards.

                              Now these three conflicts were desperate for weapons from anyone who could supply. The weapons they got was the difference between life and death.

                              Can we extend this to the same level of desperate need for steel helmets to the point that they are willing to buy refurbished WW2 German helmets ???

                              That's the $64K question ?

                              In the Greek Civil war the German weapons are being used mainly by Communist, anti-government forces. They would have also had terrible feelings towards the German occupation of WW2 as those in Israel had towards the Holocaust. This anti-Nazi sentiment should not be lightly underestimated.

                              That then leaves us with "Indochina" and here we might just have a real possibility. In 1945, they saw Chinese troops in their country for a brief time wearing such helmets to fight or take over from the Japanese as part of the Allied forces at the time. Thus the Indochina forces would see this as a helmet of liberation and the RAL primer colour from the CZ would be ideal for painting jungle camo patterns onto.

                              Of course I am clutching at straws because the only facts I can prove, there were wars in Greece and Indochina in 1946, followed by Israel in 1948 where German WW2 weapons were used and purchased post war.

                              The problem with all these wars wanting refurbished German helmets from the CZ is that we have absolutely no proof what so ever that the helmets were put together for these conflicts or were intended to go there.

                              i.e. as much proof exists for the cancellation of an export order to Israel, Greece or Indochina as there does for Egypt,

                              Chris

                              p.s. we have not even yet mentioned "The Forest Brothers". Now there is a group of fighters who in 1946-48 were going hard and would have cherished a CZ export order of refurbished German helmets arriving especially given the number of former Wehrmacht and Waffen SS in their ranks and who they were fighting.
                              Last edited by 90th Light; 12-28-2014, 01:00 PM.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
                                Hello all
                                I would love to see holocost survivors wearing "NAZI" helmets! Surely those pictures exist!
                                Kevin
                                Kevin your lack of historical accuracy astounds me.

                                Israel received equipment from whomever wherever they could as they were fighting for their very survival.

                                I used to own an MG34, stamped with the waffenamt which has a hakenkreuz. Above it, the Star of David.

                                They used German planes.

                                Please dont view history from a Hollywood or emotionally charged perspective.

                                Comment

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