My new DAK helmets

[90th Light]

While SS and Police units in the north of Italy, Croatia and Greece were wearing sand/ tan & brown coloured helmets during WW2 before May 1945

Are they both German helmets or is the other helmet in this image a pre-WW2 CZ helmet ?

Chris

[NickG]

Nice image of RSI period Italian troops with sand colored overpaints. Yes that color need was certainly in demand in Sud Front theatres, that's not in doubt of course,
but the $64000 question is, would these also have been supplied camo painted like that from the depot...so an "off the shelf" color... as opposed to done in the field)

I still can't find Dunkel-Gelb or anything close to it as a chosen paint color in the post war Warsaw Pact armies...
The RAL color btw was officially removed from the active German color register in 1960...15 years after the war, and I doubt it was adopted and utilized by any army post 1945,
(unless it was old stock that did not received a repaint (like the MG34/42 lafettes, etc did...)
so probably a dormant color and struck from the list....Only to be rediscovered, reintroduced of course for reenactors, restorers etc... this late war ordnance tan equipment farbe!

[Dennis S]

Italian SS troops "Debica" wearing German helmets. Early inaccurate books stated they only wore italian M33 helmets. How do we know they are italian SS ? Because a photo album of an NCO in a propaganda unit's photos were published from his scrapbook. These look like field repaints.

[Jos L C]

Post-war believers should prove that these are post-war ?
.. but doesn't this count for the war-time believers also ?

I see loads of pics, but they don't tell anything.
None of the pics shows the inside, plus there were loads of shades of paint those days.
Lot of theories, but none are confirmed sofar..
Dome stamps, who is gonna fake a dome stamp, well, even big dealers do ..
" Battle worn" or re-enactment ?
If all had to be turned in, why so many new looking ones ?

After war loads of these helmets were used by all kinda troops, loads were sprayed or painted black or white for fire fighters etc..
Even our fire fighters used German helmets till they were changed in the 70's, all German helmets from top to bottom, dome stamps et all ..
Mouse grey gasmask canisters, still sold as KM ..
We can call them Ostfront, Flak or KM, but they are post-war refurbished items.
Ofcourse all of these items started in some depot where they were found those days.
Our fire fighters had many in stock, repainted for their own use.
I could've started a thread about these, hey, they're from Russia !
They're white and all German and they had to turn them in after battle etc..
A vet told me had a white helmet like this ..
Lot of pics with white helmets in use, it would generate believers, I'm sure.

It's hard to prove things by not knowing what these are, rock hard evidence is what these helmets need, otherwise they are just anything one would like them to be.

Jos.

[Dennis S]

Jos, all good points more food for thought.

[NickG]

After war loads of these helmets were used by all kinda troops, loads were sprayed or painted black or white for fire fighters etc..
Even our fire fighters used German helmets till they were changed in the 70's, Our fire fighters had many in stock, repainted for their own use.

Jos.

OK let me ask you this Jos: Honestly do these helmets look like they were "repainted post war for their own use (fire etc) ?" in a war time identified German military RAL coded color?
Sure post war German helmets were used with modern (black-white) paint slapped on the OUTSIDE mostly, or on the entire helmet inside out with post war interiors added...to include post war "Y" configuration chinstraps for fire department use, etc...lacking quality...recycled!!!
Those are in a different catagory...post war recycled locally by fire services (most often with updated modern liners...)
that is NOT the topic of this thread!! These are totally reconditioned with 100% minty war time parts and the M42's possibly/probably newly made like this from the ground up to incude dome stamps on 25% of them.
And for post war use? why? The Germans made 25 million helmets during the war...why recondition them to this extent?
War time yes, worth it, new helmets with new (tropical) kit!
So no need to post examples from your country, or start a new thread on post war use of stahlhelm, that is not a revelation!)

You would accept B which is a Luftwaffe overpaint (btw in the same DUnkelgelb color) but at the same time NOT accept A because it looks like it might be a fire/emergency service helmet (in a RAL German ordnance color)???
Why ?because it is in unused mint condition?... So to good looking for it to be real (like the G43 pouches, also unissued) or because the finish lacks texture that most are accustomed to seeing on such combat helmets, well often texture was added with overpaints...adding saw dust or cement even...These are not overpaints! To me these CZ found helmets are like early prewar apple green DD Heer helmets so lacking texture but still very real with a very high chance of being totally war time produced and found in uncirculated condition in a depot untouched "as is" !
(found still the wrapping paper even!) That makes me wonder ...is the wrapping paper is a clue?

[Fred S]

Nick,

Here's a footage of one of the helmets who began this thread (post 1 page 1) and a pic of a Warsaw Pact equipment you've posted (post 510, page 68).

Quite similar I 'd say? No?

As well we must keep in mind that the Warsaw Pact was created in 1955 and, even if they wanted to have the same norm regarding paint and equipment, they certainly didn't reach that goal, the picture in post 510 show it clearly, 2 colors on the same equipment.

[90th Light]

We are going backwards and forwards when this type of paint was used in the CZ.

The fact is that this colour, type of paint was used during WW2 before May 1945. That is the important part for this study. I can not imagine that this paint was banned for use from June 1945 onwards. If a paint factory had been set up in the CZ to make this type of paint & colour then it probably carried on for some time after WW2.

The important thing, until this thread came along. Everyone said the paint was a post war epoxy applied in the CZ after WW2.

We have now clearly established this RAL paint and shade was also painted on German items during WW2 usually at the factory but not always. It is not epoxy and there is nothing to suggest it was not applied in the CZ to these helmets before May 1945 (this is both direct and circumstantial evidence).

The other facts we have established is that there were hoards of other WW2 SS & LW uniform items found in the part of the CZ where the steel helmets where found such as uniform jackets, pith helmets, web belts, boots & parkas (this is circumstantial evidence).

The next major fact is that that there just happened to be an SS uniform distribution depot in that CZ town for the supply and collection of SS tropical uniforms (this is circumstantial evidence)

And the SS (also LW ?) used sand/ tan/ brown steel helmets when they wore their tropical uniforms. Their helmets were an even colour to match the uniforms usually without the rune shield on the side (again circumstantial)

Now are there any facts or evidence for the post-war case ???

If there is, could someone please sum it up.

Because if we bring all the WW2 circumstantial evidence together what do we get ??? and does it knock the post war case out of the ring ???

Chris

[nzef1940]

[QUOTE=Glenn McInnes;6727050]

This thread will just go on and on I am sure.



And on and on and on.....

[Aries22]

Nick,

Here's a footage of one of the helmets who began this thread (post 1 page 1) and a pic of a Warsaw Pact equipment you've posted (post 510, page 68).

Quite similar I 'd say? No?

As well we must keep in mind that the Warsaw Pact was created in 1955 and, even if they wanted to have the same norm regarding paint and equipment, they certainly didn't reach that goal, the picture in post 510 show it clearly, 2 colors on the same equipment.

No way, this WP colour is something really another, another shade and composition...If you will have it in your hands to cpmpare, you will see...

[Aries22]

22

22

[Aries22]

23

23

[Aries22]

24

24

[Aries22]

25

This is my helmet during recleaning...it was completely black painted as another helmet from czech civil defence, but this one has colours inside...you can see it after removed black colour...first is panzergrau with original stamp and next one is yellow one same as used our discused colour....interesting is, then this stamp is from THALE, same as on my first two coloured helmet posted here before...

[Schwerpunkt]

apples and oranges are being compared here.
Sorry guys but you are losing focus , regroup and do this behind the scenes in a more scientific fashion. I know it's dull but the OCAP method is the only viable one.

Observe
Catalogue
Analyse

and finally ... with a lot of effort (no kidding)

Present

If you just keep comparing B&W , colored photos and then photos from today from overpaints and repainted shells , it won't go anywhere but downhill.
There's no structure in your presentation.