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    #196
    Tim,
    It's not the RZM mark I find troublesome you will find it comes with both single and double rings and with and without Z's with a dash mark. To me it's the use of a period instead of a / in the markers number that troubles me. Even with the front having a completely different design then the two shown by Mike and jray that could be explained by a design change at sometime as yours is very similar in appearance to an Assmann badge. Having said that I think most of us have something that they aren't 100% sure of but have the feel of a good piece.

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      #197
      RZM M1/25: Rudolf Reiling, Pforzheim

      The M1/25 mark was the RZM license number of Rudolf Reiling, Pforzheim. I'm not sure who the gold & silversmith group is quoted below. RZM contract numbers were never changed or reassigned (actually 2 were between 1934 and 1945 out of several thousand), so "25" would have belonged to the Rudolf Reiling company from the very start.

      I just finished a book on RZM codes and marks (A Collector's Guide to the RZM Marks of the NSDAP: www.goldenpheasant.biz) and looked at a lot of early variations. The M1.25 number code (with a dot) was probably used by Rudolf Reiling in early 1935 while the RZM was still issuing its first regulations and manufacturers were still a little confused. Once the RZM regs became better known (and enforced with fines and up to 2 years imprisonment), manufacturers came into line with more standard RZM marks and number codes. I'd say the second photo with the standard M1/25 reflects the later correction, and probably the use of new dies to conform to published RZM design standards for the NSDAP membership pin.

      I'd say it's a 100% genuine early example.



      Originally posted by Mike Pinkus
      ...i just checked on the maker number 25 and perhaps i was hasty with this assesment...it appears the the m 25 mark belonged to "Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Graveur-,Gold und Silberschmeide-Innungen,. Hannau"
      i believe this is a gild of gold and silversmithes....so this mark is similiar perhaps to the AGMUK series on the combat badges, ie. many small makers sharing one mark...so perhaps the differences are not as bad as i previously thought.

      Comment

        #198
        Stephen
        you are correct...i was referencing the LDO codes...my mistake...and i concur with your assesment as far as originality.
        mike


        Originally posted by sjl
        The M1/25 mark was the RZM license number of Rudolf Reiling, Pforzheim. I'm not sure who the gold & silversmith group is quoted below. RZM contract numbers were never changed or reassigned (actually 2 were between 1934 and 1945 out of several thousand), so "25" would have belonged to the Rudolf Reiling company from the very start.

        I just finished a book on RZM codes and marks (A Collector's Guide to the RZM Marks of the NSDAP: www.goldenpheasant.biz) and looked at a lot of early variations. The M1.25 number code (with a dot) was probably used by Rudolf Reiling in early 1935 while the RZM was still issuing its first regulations and manufacturers were still a little confused. Once the RZM regs became better known (and enforced with fines and up to 2 years imprisonment), manufacturers came into line with more standard RZM marks and number codes. I'd say the second photo with the standard M1/25 reflects the later correction, and probably the use of new dies to conform to published RZM design standards for the NSDAP membership pin.

        I'd say it's a 100% genuine early example.


        Comment

          #199
          Mike, James, Stephen,

          Many thanks for your opinions and information regarding my M1.25 marked PB. Based on the information given I am now certain (okay, "almost, nearly, just about certain") it is a good one and as Stephen suggests; an early badge produced prior to the RZM regulations being enforced.
          Last edited by Luft62; 10-07-2004, 02:03 AM.

          Comment

            #200
            Question to all I guess. Is this another one of the "early" pins that the red flags don't apply to--I.E. the spacing between the L-S? If so, it would be welcomed to post the pins that would fall into this grouping as I would have passed on this M1/25 pinback every day of the week. Thanks! Mike

            Comment

              #201
              Non-standard pins

              Before the RZM standardized them (and very occasionally afterwards), manufacturers produced NSDAP membership pins under private license. That's what the "GES. GESCH." is all about - it showed the design was "legally protected" and trademarked by the Nazi Party, and that it was being used by the manufacturer with permission.

              Private manufacturers often used a little artistic license in the design, so you'll find some pre-1934 pins with (horrors!) an oval "O", wide outside edge, opaque red enamel, or the hyphen between the L-S not hanging right. I have a couple I can post if I dust off the digital camera.

              As for adding them to a collection, many will pass and they can be hard to get rid of, but if everything else can point to them being period I pick them up anyways. I find they have more personality than the standard RZM ones.

              Stephen (sjl)

              (That's also me above as SJL. I seem to have 2 accounts on the Forum. I must have created one by mistake on a second computer. Sorry for the split personality


              Originally posted by Mike Dunn
              Question to all I guess. Is this another one of the "early" pins that the red flags don't apply to--I.E. the spacing between the L-S? If so, it would be welcomed to post the pins that would fall into this grouping as I would have passed on this M1/25 pinback every day of the week. Thanks! Mike
              Last edited by Trager; 10-07-2004, 07:45 AM.

              Comment

                #202
                per request...here are some better photos of my pins...the 100 marked blank is a steel piece...the only one that i have that is magnetic...any other 100 marked pins that are steel???
                mike
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