What I meant was that there are pieces with proven provenance from 1945 that have been photographed and recorded. If anyone is going to refuse to collect something because of the possibility of fakes, he needs to avoid TR items altogether. 
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Amen, Brian, Amen!
Br. JamesComment
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Well perhaps start a thread on Goring silverware, I would love to see some pieces in members collections.Comment
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A Goring siverware thread is a good idea - I can't start it though because my pieces are on a dealer's website. I am sure he is only second to Hitler as a silverware user.Comment
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"Formal Pattern AH Cigarette Box" Show & Tell Pics
Here is a nice condition AH formal Pattern Cigarette Box originally purchased direct from Fred O'Donnell of the 3rd Division in 2010. Fred considered this a real prize and the one item he kept until sold just 3 years also . Text book example .. See several pictures .. BrentComment
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A real gem Brent and thanks for posting it.
By the way, anyone interested in buying any AH silverware, Brent has some nice original pieces for sale.Comment
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I'll simply never understand why Hitler...of all people...would have silver cigarette and cigar boxes and cigar cutters sitting around his various homes, when the history tells us that even the highest Nazi bigwigs were conscious of his dislike for smoking in his presence and they made an effort not to do it, at least indoors. My comment is definitely not intended to reflect negatively upon Brent's fine antique, which I'm sure is a bona fide Wellner piece; we have seen such things for decades and have had no reason to doubt their originality. But the reason for originally providing such things to a person who was antagonistic toward the concept of smoking -- and adding his initials to the pieces would seem to add insult to injury -- continues to escape me!!
Br. JamesComment
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AH Smoking Sets
My thinking was it was so accepted at that time to smoke that these were available for important people or leaders that came to visit . Some were in the RK or at various other locations that AH was located . I would think they respected Hitler's wishes not to smoke in front of him .. They might have had smoking rooms set up near by or maybe walk outside ? My best guess .. Cigar cutters were also a part of these sets . Hermann Goering must have used these along with others that smoked Cigars. BrentLast edited by Brent Smith; 05-30-2013, 06:32 AM.Comment
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I'm sure you're right, Brent; I just can't get over the idea that anyone would give Adolf Hitler a gift of a silver cigarette box or a cigar cutter!! It's true that we have not yet discovered the depth of involvement Hitler himself played in the designing and approval of this silver service. It is worth noting that, to my knowledge, no ancillary pieces have yet appeared in the Informal Pattern -- the various serving dishes and trays, napkin rings, boxes, vases, etc. -- but only the flatware itself. Could this mean that Hitler was more (or less) involved with the design and production of the Informal Pattern than the Formal State Pattern?
We believe that Prof. Gerdy Troost was the primary designer of the Formal Pattern, but that Hitler also advised her on her work. From this I think we also assume that the Informal Pattern had the same history...?
Certainly Göring was a cigar-smoker, and I believe I have also seen pix of Himmler, Martin Bormann and Ribbentrop sitting on the patio of the Berghof or of the Kehlstein House, smoking cigars, which could indicate that they were banned from smoking indoors at either location!
Br. JamesComment
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Informal Pattern AH Cigar Cutter
I think you will find this interesting . Last year I was contacted about a AH cigar cutter that was discovered in a veterans estate . When it was described to me on the phone I thought it was a well worn formal pattern example based on what they said ..When they sent me the pictures it just established that now one has turned up in a Informal pattern .. See pictures . I do not know of another example in the Informal pattern. The example is mfg. proofed the same and measures the same size . Note the lack of the key pattern on its edge... A 100% original piece . BrentComment
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Wow! A real eye-opener! I've never seen anything like this in the AH Informal Pattern. A fine and rare piece indeed.
Br. JamesComment
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Great information - if only we knew as much about TR silverware as we do about SS cloth or medal variations.Comment
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One has to remember above all that Hitler entertained many heads of state that both drank and smoked. ...sometimes heavily. His entourage no doubt towed the line in his presence. Both Göring and Heß deputised on many occasions.Originally posted by Br. James View Post
Smoking was very fashionable at that time and Hitler was the exception rather than the rule and he uunderstood the necessity for others to smoke.Comment
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