A couple of Cultural items

[Steve T]

Beautiful plate Thorsten, lovely carving.

[Steve T]

I've always thought the silver plated brass version fake because I bought one as for a few dollars as a fake many years ago in California, plus opinions on the forums suggesting its fake. I don't recall who I bought it from, but probably from a table at a show in San Jose or SF, its a long time ago, 12 or more years now as I left CA in 99'.

Who knows for sure on the silver version? Could it could be collector 'myth'?

The cu/al/cu version matches the photograph in the associated Quedlinburg booklet. Good evidence but is there any more information that supports this version as being genuine?

Maestro,

The cu/al/cu tinnie is very light, its aluminium sandwiched between two layers of very thin copper. Its 26.5 x 52.0 mm

[Steve T]

You beat me by seconds to this one.(Greedy me already have it)
Genuine cupal piece with replaced pin.
There is also a silvered one.
(Now all you need is the "booklet")
Good score as very rare.
Seiler

Greedy man

[Etienne B.]

Nice plate indeed.But there is always the possibility that some other party organization produced these artifacts like the Arbeitsdienst or the arbeitsfront.Maybe it was handed out also during Reichsnährstand meetings
I have yet to see the prove that these plates were produced by SS carpenters in a SS woodworkers shop.

[Thorsten B.]

I absolutely agree!

And I never stated anywhere that I have any prove that this plate is SS - nonetheless it is a wooden cultural plate from the period.

And due to the outstanding quality I also believe that it was expensive and that not everybody was able to purchase it at the time - it is definitely a piece manufactured by a master carver and not being done by some HJ or BDM members or by an RAD member in their free time - what was called Feierabendgestaltung.

In my opinion it was due to it´s decoration and dedication for celebrabring bringing in the harvest in the late summer time - Erntedank!

[Thorsten B.]

For comparison:

"Ehret die Güter der Ahnen" - his big brother.

Same style, same master carver - no doubt about that.

And I have no doubt that they were made in the period as well.

[Thorsten B.]

König Heinrich lebt!

Steve,

lovely SS cultural pieces!

I really wonder how one can detect the bigger one as being fake or not.

I have no idea if different sizes from different materials of the 1936 Quedlinburg event were made.

Maybe other collectors know more?!

[Seiler]

I've always thought the silver plated brass version fake because I bought one as for a few dollars as a fake many years ago in California, plus opinions on the forums suggesting its fake. I don't recall who I bought it from, but probably from a table at a show in San Jose or SF, its a long time ago, 12 or more years now as I left CA in 99'.

Who knows for sure on the silver version? Could it could be collector 'myth'?

The cu/al/cu version matches the photograph in the associated Quedlinburg booklet. Good evidence but is there any more information that supports this version as being genuine?

Maestro,

The cu/al/cu tinnie is very light, its aluminium sandwiched between two layers of very thin copper. Its 26.5 x 52.0 mm

The material is from the "Clad Metals series"of multi layer metals.
Was made by Texas Instruments in US..BUT is of European origin in concept.
The Pfennig(?) is of the same school ie Brass/steel/Brass
Seiler

[JoeW]

I do not wholeheartedly agree with Joe´s comment due to this:

We have doubtless evidence that - at least - two different carved dedications on SS wedding plates appear:

- the one depicted in the 1939 SS calendar

- and the second one depicted in the Weitzel book

An example of the one depicted in the SS calendar has to my knowledge not surfaced yet - it was probably an example indeed only gifted by Himmler personally which means that it was somehow a more luxurious version of an SS wedding plate.
One should not forget to mention that it bears a runic symbol (Hagal-Rune) as well.


The dedication on the one depicted in the Weitzel book can be clearly - by taking a magnifier - identified as "Ehret die Scholle die uns ernährt" - without any runic symbol.

The one depicted in the SS calendar was a version given only to selected members of the SS - the one depicted in the Weitzel book is the common version for the common (not selected) SS-marriage.
Interestingly enough there is no salt pot visable in the Weitzel book pic so one can assume that not every SS-marriage included bread and salt as symbolic/religious gifts of the earth but at least always the gift of a loaf of bread.

I really don't understand why you are personally vilifying Michael for his comments. Let us keep to facts.

You state above that "... - at least - two different carved dedications on SS wedding plates appear."

1) The one depicted in the 1939 SS Calendar you state "... was probably (italics mine) an example indeed only gifted by Himmler personally which means that it was somehow a more luxurious version of an SS wedding plate." The use of probably is without foundation. No mention of Himmler is found in the text accompanying the photo of the unusual bread plate and salt cellar. Do you have some documentation to back up this statement, that seemingly contracts the text that states that bread plate and salt celler are usually presented at the weddings of SS Men as gifts from the SS?

2) The evidence of the second one in the Weitzel book is tenuous. Unless you have a different improved version of his book, the photo should be the same as viewed by Heinrich Schild. As he pointed out in the article Steve T. mentioned, only the word "Scholle" is clearly visible on the plate displayed on the family chest in the Jule Corner. Schild notes that the photo is extremely poor. And he points out that there are three phrases using the word "Scholle" found on bread plates. One of the phrases is the one you mention in your above reply: "Ehret die Scholle die uns ernährt". But as Schild notes, it is not possible to know which of the three is on that plate.

Thus there is no means of specifically associating plates with that above phrase, or any specific phrase using the word Scholle, with use or gifting at an SS wedding. Such plates can only be described as bread plates of the style possibly used at SS weddings.

Thorsten, do you have any new documentation to contradict Schild's conclusion in his article?

[Gaspare]

Good common sense post Joe...
The many views of this topic is mainly because most can't believe what is passing for SS and 'period' now days.. Interesting pieces to see though..

to any member,,,Please tell the rest of us the test on wood that can tell the difference between 70 year old wood and 60 year old wood..................

[Thorsten B.]

Tell me why...

OK!

As far as I can see you just do not want to accept my presented historical facts.

So what?


Why should I waste my time with:

- people who on the one hand are in this forum because they want to learn and study

- and when they have the fortune to do so they deny?

Why?


Why is it that I can CLEARLY read the carved dedication on the depicted SS wedding plate in the Weitzel book with a magnifier while others (including "Schildt") cannot?

Why am I able to see on a video showing Fegelein´s wedding in Salzburg in the summer of 1944 in the www CLEARLY EXACTLY the identical SS wedding and salt pot (and which is depicted in the 1939 SS calendar) given to the Fegelein couple - together with two silver wedding cups - even by Himmler in person?

Why is that?

I must be drunk and see things I want to see because I am a bad a?? dealer and want to grab your money so I make these things up to fool you.


Are you happy now?

[Thälmannpionier]

it really starts to get on my nerves now...:this "yeah, it is SS Cultural because..!! and Noo it is not!!! this is just

For me...a few photos in some SS Publications and Calender, just showing wooden Plates DO NOT PROOF this ongoing discussion AT ALL!!!
why would it??!!!

Hey Guys.....the SS Families used every other Items that normal folks would and could use (buy) too!!! whats the point here?? They definitly also not just used one or two Examples of the Plates
just because they used wooden plates for their wedding ceremony (wich a ordinary wedding couple used too!!) makes a wooden Plate SS issued Item or what?!
so if my Grandfather tells me that his wooden Plate with the words: "Heil dem Gast der zu uns kommt" was a gift to his wedding in 1942 and if my Grandfather was SS..then it makes my Plate a Original SS Wedding Plate??? Nonsens get a grip here

call it just german NS Cultural Plates or whatever..and I could agree


one more Thing: Im still up to move this Thread to a more apropiate forum..its not about SS here really..it is about NS Cultural Pieces with lots of Fans here..including me

[Thorsten B.]

It gets better and better.

"the SS Families used every other Items that normal folks would and could use (buy) too!!!" = Completely BS!

[maestro]

Nonsens get a grip here

call it just german NS Cultural Plates or whatever..and I could agree


one more Thing: Im still up to move this Thread to a more apropiate forum..its not about SS here really..it is about NS Cultural Pieces with lots of Fans here..including me

touche!

[Thorsten B.]

Any german person or family outside of the SS could neither even buy nor had any kind of other access to the SS calendar and the SS-Family book - their use and lecture was only for insiders:

Members and families of the SS.

Why else do you think the SS-Family book was in existence at all?

Because SS-families were the same as any other german family?

No - because SS was different and were requested (if not commanded) to live a life-style of their very own.

That is the grip to get.