Any Ideas on This Cross w/Swords (opinions appreciated) *

[Leroy]

I don't think new cars were prohibited.

Putting leftover badges on boards to barter, yes. Workers assembling (probably in their homes) leftover parts into badges (to put on those same boards), yes.

Actively new die-stamping of swastika badges and components, no.

As Herr Assmann said "Herr Luck could be difficult to deal with, but he was not stupid."

[Dietrich Maerz]

Actively new die-stamping of swastika badges and components, no.

We can argue this point forever.

The only thing we can do is approach the topic indirectly.

• Could they have the means to do so? The answer is surely yes!
• Was there a market for the products? The answer is surely yes!
• Are there badges and medals that indicate they might have done it? The answer is surely yes!
• Were existing laws strong enough to stop them? Maybe! Maybe not. Didn't stop the barter boards.
• What was stronger: the instnict to survive by making a DM or the strict following of the law? Who knows?

[Brian S]

On the last point you know the answer....survive.

[Andreas Klein]

I cannot see how the rest of Germany was cranking out high level production goods and in Lüdenscheid they were not doing anything ..... very unlikely!

Well Lüdenscheid was active again shortly after the war. Assmann for example started very soon after they had destroyed their forbidden swaz tools to produce belt-buttons and normal buttons for the british army.

Remember the history of Lüdenscheid: they were they so called "button city" of the 19th century.

[Leroy]

You think those soldiers getting "barter boards" paid in DM for them??? Maybe after 1949.

I would love to see the badges you feel were newly die struck between May, 1945 and @1950. Hans-Gunter showed an SK from S&L which he believed was from that period. The eagles' heads had a slight die flaw which he said may have appeared before the end of the war (he could not say for sure), but on the rest of the badge, other things were wrong (including the way hardware was positioned) from wartime badges. And the color was wrong (the "chemistry" on Andreas' list).

[Dietrich Maerz]

You think those soldiers getting "barter boards" paid in DM for them??? Maybe after 1949.

You don't seem to know that the RM was in use until June 1948. I also think that some Dollars or some cigarettes would be acceptable.

I truly think that the "935" is an early post-war production, yes I do. But I don't "know" ... yet!

[Andreas Klein]

You don't seem to know that the RM was in use until June 1948. I also think that some Dollars or some cigarettes would be acceptable.

In eastern germany we had the Ostmark and no one cared about it .... so i would not count in RM

Anyway for sure you could easily get some souvenirs from a former german soldier for a chewing gum, some cigarettes, by craping them from the streets or by simply showing him your pistol.

But is this business? ... is this the business a firm like Deschler would have done and could have survived with:

"When i get 30 chewing gums than i have to give 29 to my employes and make 1 profit".

If i have to read some postings than it seems to me that the 2nd world war was a big sports game and Russians and Germans shaked hands in Berlin and thanked each other for the damned good fightig in Stalingrad: And now lets trade some cool swaz stuff ...

Sorry, there is a clear difference between crowing up the normal industry to get a partner in the upcoming cold war and the military tradition of a country which had been responsible for 2 world wars and the holocaust.

Btw why is a sales list from november 1951 labeled as 2nd edition if there had been such a strong demand for awards allready in 1946? Why was Assmann so stupid to switch back to army-buttons if they could have earned so much money with some combat badges?

[Brian S]

My mother says it was all cigarettes in Wiesbaden for currency. And of course gold in any form, silver, barter man!

[Leroy]

But you did say "DM".

My friend, we will continue to disagree, but that is alright because we are here
to learn. (People are always surprised when they see us sitting together and talking at the MAX or SOS.)

The '935' is an interesting piece. I own now the very example you used in your book. Unfortunately, the prior owner did not protect it very well and the frosting (and even some of the top layer of paint) are missing. It would be interesting to know when, exactly, you believe it was produced. I have never asked before.

[Andreas Klein]

Must be an russian employee of a german maker cleaning the street before they run their next production run ....

[Leroy]

Brian - Even though I have quit the evil smoking habit, there are times when I would trade an EK for a pack of Marlboros.

[Andreas Klein]

Brian - Even though I have quit the evil smoking habit, there are times when I would trade an EK for a pack of Marlboros.

Be sure that i will remind you of that offer

[Leroy]

Don't tempt me, Andreas.

On a much more serious note, though, there is this:

If i have to read some postings than it seems to me that the 2nd world war was a big sports game and Russians and Germans shaked hands in Berlin and thanked each other for the damned good fightig in Stalingrad: And now lets trade some cool swaz stuff ...

Sorry, there is a clear difference between crowing up the normal industry to get a partner in the upcoming cold war and the military tradition of a country which had been responsible for 2 world wars and the holocaust.
?

When I started collecting as a child in 1958, my Father (who had been a combat surgeon with Patton's army and was one of the first U.S. doctors sent to Buchenwald) was very tolerant, except that he would throw away anything SS that I found or was given by neighbors and friends. My Uncle, also a veteran, if he saw anything I had, would grab it and throw it away (and I had to look in the trash after he left to find it again). He HATED all Germans. I made the mistake of taking a Party armband to school one day and my teacher started crying and left the classroom. Her husband had been killed on D-Day.

It is hard to make people understand.

[sdesember]

"935-4"

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/au...3/lot-21972562

From the single mid-size photo provided, to me, it doesn't look even like an S&L Cross, e.g., shallow beadings, no inner flashing remaining inside the Öse. But, check out the interesting description about Bowen and the Cross...

[kraut72]

"1. the die
2. the machines
3. the workers
4. the chemistry for the finish
5. the setup"


I would put this into it.....

6. the qualitative raw material


KC his the rolled silver/800-935/ plate....