Any Ideas on This Cross w/Swords (opinions appreciated) *

[Dietrich Maerz]

But you did say "DM".

You knew and know exactly what I meant ...

It would be interesting to know when, exactly, you believe it was produced. I have never asked before.

Here's is what I believe: exactly post-war.

As I said already several times before, it does not matter to me whether it was made with smoking stacks and running machines, from old or new parts, in a basement of an old Mutti or in the main office of Mr. Preuss - past 8. May 1945 is exactly post war.

The last postings regarding the production were only to show that Germany, hated or not hated by the Allies, was not in a stage of utmost damage without any means to produce anything. That notion was and is absolutely and completely wrong. These postings had nothing to do with the question of 45/49 or post 50.

[Leroy]

I truly think that the "935" is an early post-war production, yes I do. But I don't "know" ... yet!

Well, what makes you think it is "early post-war" and, more importantly, what does "early" mean to you?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Why is what I think and what I define for myself as "early" so important to you?

[Leroy]

Why is what I think and what I define for myself as "early" so important?

I only asked for myself, so it is only important to me as the current owner of the '935' cross in your book, especially since you left the impression in your book that the cross was postwar but now have given the opinion here that it is "early postwar production". I had hoped to learn what new information may have come your way to show that it was not, by example, a 1953 cross.

[Leroy]

I request that this very interesting and informative thread be pinned.

[Andreas Klein]

Good idea

Agreed due the lot of infomrations we have here it would be a shame if this all would end in the deep of the WAF in a few weeks.

[Legion Condor]

Hi,

yes is a good idea.
But I did not think that my contribution so what would have triggered off.

I'm surprised.

Greeting Hans Günter

[DBRoyal]

My last post are only in response to the (possible) assertion that between May 1945 and December 1949 West-Germany was not in a position, due to lack of workers, material, machines, and supplies to produce something - be it a car, a mororcycle or a military badge.
The reality was, that Germany had in 1945 a better production capability than in 1938, and that it was used heavily and that the country rebounced way before 1950.

Exactly. Even shortly after the war, a wide range of items were being produced in Germany. I have a Leica camera from 1946. To be sure, there were selective shortages of some consumer goods, food items and housing, but as Dietrich wrote, very substantial industrial capacity remained and was soon put to use.

While I don't pretend to know all of the reasons why this might have been so, it is a fact that Germany underwent major industrial/manufacturing expansion during the war, to the extent that German production capacity in 1944 was well above its levels not only of 1938, but of 1940- 41, despite the bombing and general course of the war.

[Andreas Klein]

As allready said things of and very everyday living are clearly different from swaz related symbols of german militarism.

I really ask myself why the allied forces should have introduced laws with the goal of the complete (!) and lasting (!) destruction of german militarism in 1946 .... to allow the german award makers at the same time to produce the nazi awards and sell it to everyone who was in need of a nice swaz.

[Brian S]

Those were words on a page not reality on the groung.

[Andreas Klein]

Those were words on a page not reality on the groung.

No Brian ... reality in germany of postwar was much harder. Reality had been headlines in newspapers declaring people in public as Nazis and a questionarie with 132 questions to test what kind of nazi you had been:

[Andreas Klein]

Reality was showing woman and children the warcrimes from face to face ... and you really believe that the same US soldier allowed a german maker to produce a swaz award like nothing had happend?

[Andreas Klein]

Reality was paying "Sühnegeld" as punishment to be in closer contact to the Nazis ...

Sounds funny that a german had to pay a personal punishment in 1946 for beeing the lowest grade of Nazi namend "follower" but was allowed to buy his swaz knights cross at the same time.

[Brian S]

No Brian ... reality in germany of postwar was much harder. Reality had been headlines in newspapers declaring people in public as Nazis and a questionarie with 132 questions to test what kind of nazi you had been:

Yeah searching for ss hiding in plain sight. Not as you paint it. You really need to talkto people who lived it and try to travel beyond your imagination.

[Andreas Klein]

... and surprise even in 1948 (!) the courts were still active and the lowest nazi grade had to pay a punishment and the overall order was stay away from germans.

Surely rules were broken but it is a big difference between a civilian trading his awards and allowing an industrial swaz production.