Camo coming from Lorenzo - Helmet cover

[Fritz]

Hi,

back on the topic.

1)
If i'm right, Lorenzo sold/traded items in the S.O.S. ?
Did he visited other fairs in Europe ?

2)
which dealers are known to have sold stuff that came from Lorenzo ?

3)
is anyone remembering if the price asked by Lorenzo was expensive/normal/low and if some trades seemed "too good to be true" ?

See You

Vince

1 Yes

2 Let me rephrase the question: Which not? ( the list will be shorter)

3 Around 5000 for a "wartime" cover and if memory serves right 1500-2500 for camo caps mainly depending on the camouflage pattern.

Cheers

[Fritz]

Euros that is

[Disco Partisan]

Everyone? You mean you?

I see a hinted solution in your eloquent post though: Please write a book and have it publsihed as soon as you possibly can!!

Wise man said about the lies including of yours

[leib1]

So how many times was the cap returned ? How many times did Peter sell the cap before deciding it was fake ?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

thanks Fritz for the infos !

More questions :

1)
So i suppose that like for some other "debated" items, the fact that Lorenzo had many items (coming like it was from an inexhaustible source) did ring some bells to a few collectors ?

2)
Just to be sure, when was the first time that Lorenzo started to provide "italian" items ?

3)
Was Michael D. Beaver (before he passed away), Mr Borsarello (same) or any "big collectors" contacted by Lorenzo ?
especially authors on the SS like Ulric OE, Mr. Lumsden, Mr. Ailsbury, etc ?
Do we know if some of them were reluctant to those items ?
Has anyone tried to get an advice from them (and what was if possible their replies) ?

4)
So it is true to say that both north-american and european dealers sold them ?
Do we know if Lorenzo provided them with a "retail price" ? Or did he made trade with them ?
See You

Vince

[17thairborne]

Wise man said about the lies including of yours

I think Abe was referring to a militaria dealer who was attempting to sell a Civil War kepi that was deemed by many to be fake, but continued to argue in support of the seller stating over and over because he said so. The thread pattern on this civil war kepi was incorrect, and the material was taken from old CS blanket material. Its a shame they cut up these original blankets to make fake kepis.

Sorry, I could not resist.

[kammo man]

disco ,

Whats it feel like to be a fakers mouthpiece ?

Your posts are getting less classy as you go on and on.
Its weird.


You have not told the world how the modern made covers made by lorenzo have magically became old and TR timeframe.
You just keep spinning the same waffle.

Now you admit not even owning any covers but you know all about them "Because Lorenzo says so"

WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD.

[norge]

Camo paranoia..

there has never been a such post with the "stitching fingerprint"




Can you prove or just provide evidence for these statements or just any of your statements that are listed below:

1. Lorenzo offered "more then a few" of these "questionable" camo-items
2. Lorenzo has sold and offered numerous caps of this type
3. Also plenty of covers.
4. There were also "questionable" kombis
5. Lorenzo told these items were found at Prato
6. You can name 12 collectors that took at least one of his items (please name 3 at least and post pictures of the items that they bought from Lorenzo)
7. By the time Lorenzo showed up on the forum sales of such items boosted

The following things would work as evidences / facts to back up what you just said:
A. Emails exchanged with Lorenzo where he is offering his items,
B. pictures of these items sent by Lorenzo,
C. old WAF threads where items offered by Lorenzo have been discussed,
D. names of collectors that bought items directly from him, etc

I am sure you won't bring a single valid evidence or fact and your words will remain as such just "words" just another bluff

Hi All

I have been watching this thread since start...now its time to post.
First of all, i am not a dealer, but a collector who also deal, trade, buy and sell.
..as most of us does.. its part of the collectors life which i have been doing for 30 years.

I dealt with Lorenzo in past. I bought and traded items from him, and other collectors world wide.
First of all i think also Lorenzo should be member to speak back against the accusations, and questions around him.
Lorenzo says all ss camo i got from him was 100% good. He also helped me out with fake ss camo i bought from other dealers. I got a lot nice ss camo in some deals from Lorenzo, also a cover 100 % good at SOS. (first and only time i meet him).

Trough the years i become more familiar with ss camo..mostly trough handling (Hand inspected a lot of covers, smocks, caps ++) I made up my own mind, but of course also listen to other experts, and forum judgments. Judging by pics. is not always good...i end up with 3 categories when i judge pics today:
1 easy fake
2 questionable
3 good period ww2 100%.

I "know" also Kammo man" and Fritz. Mostly i agree with them.. but not always.
For example the cut/line alignment in fabric theory..this theory statement i don´t agree..but I leave it up to each and every one to believe what those will.
Also we see no proof that Lorenzo made up those covers?


As for the evidence/facts "Achtung, Bnz42, Disco partisan" ask for..YES, i can contribute with most of this...a lot of pics of a lot of camo stuff i have been offered by Lorenzo at the period from 2005-up.. But i am unsure if i will post any of it as long as Lorenzo is not here to participate in the threads.

As for the cover BE my friend Bax who posted and started this thread : i got it from Lorenzo in 2007..sold to Canada...2007.. i got it back to Norway in 2008 to help an other friend collector/dealer...then from him to Bax..and has been in his collection ever since. The deals we did was in good faith on my part. Lorenzo claims also today (by e-mail to me) that this cover is 100% good mint cover. I must admit that i today have doubt.. it fell in my category : questionable. Cant judge it real..cant judge it fake by pics.
So..its a case we will try sort out the best way, but not sure what to agree with yet?...a bit complicated when many years ago, different collector owner and opinions, new theory's, rumors and claims, new/wrong knowledge ...

To be continued...

Cheer´ss
Gisle

[Disco Partisan]

I dealt with Lorenzo in past. I bought and traded items from him..
Lorenzo says all ss camo i got from him was 100% good. I got a lot nice ss camo in some deals from Lorenzo, also a cover 100 % good.

As for the evidence/facts "Disco partisan" ask for...YES, i can contribute..a lot of pics of a lot of camo stuff i have been offered by Lorenzo at the period from 2005-up.

Are you saying that Lorenzo has offered you "A LOT of QUESTIONABLE items?" OR just "a LOT of Items" ? Can you please clarify it as there is a huge difference in these two meanings.
Were there any fakes detected in the items that Lorenzo has offered you? Are there any fakes that you bought from Lorenzo as original?

Let me remind you that Lorenzo has a huge collection and he has been moving a LOT of staff.. So there is nothing suspicious if he offered you more than a few. The point is "what kind of items". Were they all "of the same type"? Or all different?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

many thanks Gisle for your testimony !

I have a very stupid question, sorry if this one appear to be rude.

As far i understand the Bax cover's lineage :

??? > Lorenzo > norge (Gisle) bought it in 2007 > sold to canadian's collector > sold to norvegian dealer in 2008 > Bax

1)
Gisle, i suppose that sold it because you needed money or maybe you traded it ?
Did you saw a difference or an increase in price between 2007 and 2008 ?

2)
It seemed that the cover travelled a lot on 1-2 years, is it usual to have items able to be bought/sold in a short period of time ?
I'm not saying that anyone had a doubt at any time (this is not the question), this is just to know if such items can travel so much in the collector community ?

See You

Vince

[Willi Z.]

This is completely relevant in this matter.

Do you think his expulsion was just a hasty decision made by one moderator alone?

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

the "Champagne SS painted runes" fooled everyone or so from 1975 up to 2015...
This is a long time in the collector's world...
Same for the "Delande" Croix de Guerre Légionnaire who "fooled" people from 1960 up to the recent years...

And it has always the same way to operate :

1) one guy/a small group fo guys
2) with "beautiful" stories (sometimes different for each buyer)
3) with dozen if not hundred of fakes, some buyers may even see the stock
4) coming from a single area/dealer
5) with "specialists" praising the fakes
6) = $$$

See You

Vince

[Willi Z.]

To continue with that theme. You create a following of devoted 'subjects'. You don't try to cheat everyone, just some you know will never know the difference. Some advanced collectors will never be offered fakes and can then claim "I never knew", and are being totally honest. You can be honest to some who buy good items, and admit to them that you are selling fakes. That is done selectively. Most of those never reveal their secret, but some eventually do after years go by. Dealers and collectors. Most collectors are not confrontational, so they just shun the person. One way to 'hook' people is to claim everyone else's items are fake, but only your items are genuine.

Much can also be revealed by the words of the fakers. Read the prior threads. You always counterattack the attacker to marginalize the message and confuse the onlooker.

Most of the notorious fakers have suburb collections. Recently a crooked dealer passed away. A friend went over just before he passed, to buy items. Once it was established that the prospective buyer knew what he was doing, he was taken to see the good stuff. The bad stuff was stacked in the room and he was not offered that.

[norge]

Hi,

many thanks Gisle for your testimony !

I have a very stupid question, sorry if this one appear to be rude.

As far i understand the Bax cover's lineage :

??? > Lorenzo > norge (Gisle) bought it in 2007 > sold to canadian's collector > sold to norvegian dealer in 2008 > Bax

1)
Gisle, i suppose that sold it because you needed money or maybe you traded it ?
Did you saw a difference or an increase in price between 2007 and 2008 ?

2)
It seemed that the cover travelled a lot on 1-2 years, is it usual to have items able to be bought/sold in a short period of time ?
I'm not saying that anyone had a doubt at any time (this is not the question), this is just to know if such items can travel so much in the collector community ?

See You

Vince

Hi Vince

1: Sold and trade... I was helping my dealer friend who was hording ss covers at that time.. it went straight to him.

2: Very usual it is. buy, trade, sell, buy new... Not a short period of time at all imo.

Best,
Gisle

[norge]

Are you saying that Lorenzo has offered you "A LOT of QUESTIONABLE items?" OR just "a LOT of Items" ? Can you please clarify it as there is a huge difference in these two meanings.
Were there any fakes detected in the items that Lorenzo has offered you? Are there any fakes that you bought from Lorenzo as original?

Let me remind you that Lorenzo has a huge collection and he has been moving a LOT of staff.. So there is nothing suspicious if he offered you more than a few. The point is "what kind of items". Were they all "of the same type"? Or all different?

Hey Disco
A LOT of items ...covers, caps, smocks ++ different types..
The cover here is now QUESTIONABLE.. not back then....

And when i look at the pics in my files now, there are both good period ww2 ss camo..and also Questionable items.. due to members opinions here....and my own taste today.


Best,
Gisle