SS Panzer Grouping .

[Richard P]

4. The tab difference. As Scott Hess pointed out, the rank tab has an unusual shape. As he pointed out the horizontal lengths of the tab curve in because the tailor/seamstress followed the shape of the tab. I have seen quite a few SS tabs shaped this way, nothing bad there. In the current photo one side of the rank tab appears straight. In the portrait..it is curved. If you look at the stitching on the front and back of the collar, both horizontal planes are curved inward...just like in the photo. While the overall current photo makes one side of the tab appear straight because of perspective, bunching of material, or?

[Richard P]

Backside.

[Richard P]

The EKII ribbon. It can be perspective. It can be a sliding of the ribbon down some, creating an indentation in the lapel as we see in the portrait. Plus...it looks as though the ribbon was touched up with oil tints.

The distortion on the SS rune tab is easily explained by the period camera not being focused on it, distorting the spacing. I have recommended to the owner to take the photo from the frame, scan it, and shoot new comparison photos on a body the wrap fits.

Sorry if it got boring....my 79 cents.

Richard

Glenn's photo again for ribbon comparison.

[sscrooge]

Hi,i know little on panzer wraps but i cant really see why the photo should be compared exactly to the wrap after it appears that the picture itself has been redone and altered , great looking pieces Rob rgds Dave

[Gary Wood]

2. To compound this further, the camera taking the photo of the photo, is angled away to cut down reflections from the glass covering the photo.

Looking at that shot Richard the photo looks like it has a lot of touching up, it certainly comes across as looking somewhat unnatural IMO

[Hardigan]

Here is Glenn's comparison photo, which he did a great job on. I say the soldier in the photo wearing the wrap is leaning into the camera. This is easily seen because it appears you are looking down at his badges as they angle away from you. That can change the shape of the lapels, collar tips, tab shape, it can change the width and length of anything. It is all perspective.

Here is Glenn's comparison shot.

Thanks Richard P , that I did a great job with the comparison photo !!!


Hardigan

[davidSW]

This grouping cannot be measured against this type of blown up hand enhanced picture/come photo. All these measurements leaving out angle, shape of person in the tunic all surmount to nothing .
I have had visibility of this group from its find about six months ago . For the forum and its inner circles to try and reverse engineer a group to their standards and critics is as always demoralizing .
The information I have gathered concludes that this grouping is what it is and the photo doesn’t and will never lend it self to an interment discussion or ritual hanging by people.
Brian Zinger I can entertain doubts with your comments and find uncanny you seem to be in discussion with other forum members as you type your comments.
We wont be mentioning great coats or baseball caps !!!!.

[rob NL]

Thanks Richard P , that I did a great job with the comparison photo !!!


Hardigan

Yes you did att SUPER job, you compared a painting to a wrapper.
Give yourself an applause !

[B. N. Singer]

This grouping cannot be measured against this type of blown up hand enhanced picture/come photo. All these measurements leaving out angle, shape of person in the tunic all surmount to nothing .
I have had visibility of this group from its find about six months ago . For the forum and its inner circles to try and reverse engineer a group to their standards and critics is as always demoralizing .
The information I have gathered concludes that this grouping is what it is and the photo doesn’t and will never lend it self to an interment discussion or ritual hanging by people.
Brian Zinger I can entertain doubts with your comments and find uncanny you seem to be in discussion with other forum members as you type your comments.
We wont be mentioning great coats or baseball caps !!!!.

Thank you and my regrets to you sir that you were not able to acquire it for yourself at that time.

B. N. Singer

[Hardigan]

Yes you did att SUPER job, you compared a painting to a wrapper.
Give yourself an applause !

It's a retouched Photo , that's a big difference. I wish it was the wrapper in the photo , such rare things are always nice to see !

[Bob Coleman]

This thread has really moved off course. I do not believe the owner ever made the claim that this garment is the same one shown in the picture. As to the award loops, they are in the standard position on the tunic that is normal for such awards. It is this type of off course nit picking that has driven many members away from posting pictures of their treasures. It would e nice to see this thread redirect itself back to discussing the items posted and away from guesses regarding whether the garment is or is not the same one in the picture.

[Mike Davis]

Well..it seems unanimous that this isn't the wrap in the photo...but, then there is me. I am not convinced it is not the same wrapper and I will tell you why.

I have a particular stug wrap with a photo of the former owner wearing it. Unfortunately it's in a Soldbuch and rather small. I had it professionally enlarged, because I was not convinced it was the same as pictured. It took a lot of time and repositioning of the wrap to get it to sit on a mannequin like it does on a live person. Then the wrap had to have numerous adjustments of the collar, sleeve, lapels, etc. Then I had to find the exact level and position of the original photographer. I never got it perfect, but was able to get a position where you could see it was the exact same tunic. It took dozens and dozens of photographs.

A friend repeatedly told me it was not the same wrap. Up until I got the angle right, and then he helped convince me.

Here is Glenn's comparison photo, which he did a great job on. I say the soldier in the photo wearing the wrap is leaning into the camera. This is easily seen because it appears you are looking down at his badges as they angle away from you. That can change the shape of the lapels, collar tips, tab shape, it can change the width and length of anything. It is all perspective.

Here is Glenn's comparison shot.

Good work Richard P. I now regret suggesting that the wrap was 'obviously' not the same.

But it really would not matter that much to me anyway if the wrap was the same from the photo, as I like the wrap for its own sake and I like the associated items as well.

I appreciate these items being posted and I hope that the back and forth doesn't dissuade Rob and others from posting in future. This is a discussion forum after all and it seems that collectively we usually get close to the truth in the end.

[B. N. Singer]

Well..It is all perspective.

True dat!

B. N. Singer

[rob NL]

It seems to me that you have parted with a tidy sum for this "grouping" the main emphasis being the tunic. Am I right in thinking that you believed that you were buying the tunic shown in the touched up portrait? If so I think it would be wise of you to send it back forthwith.

If you would read the thread then you allready saw my answer .
No , I didnt buy the tunic because it was in the portrait , I bought it because it stands on its own , that is the same for the docs also .

[tgn]

If you would read the thread then you allready saw my answer .
No , I didnt buy the tunic because it was in the portrait , I bought it because it stands on its own , that is the same for the docs also .

Good for you, because it is a great document set. Even if the wrap was "reserse provenanced" to look like the one in the photo, if it is a real wrap and real insignia and nicely done, it is a nice "re-creation" to go with the group. Sometimes that is the best we can hope for.

Tom