The mk casket club

[Michael Fay]

Where did you learn this?

Like the idea to use the slipcase, a first as far as I know. Makes the book fit almost snugly. Will give that a try, too. But only temporarily, because none of the caskets came with the slipcase, only the book.

Hello der hase fee,
I am not in disagreement with you, as I cant find legitamite information of any kind to argue with you one way or the other.
So I must ask: Where did you learn this?
I have found no TR era documentation nor any theories backed up with actual evidence on these "MK" Boxes, of any kind.
All I have ever found are theories and educated guesses. Nothing wrong with educated guesses, but not as helpful as I prefer.

As an aside, the slip case , and the book came with the box
(with no claim as being original book with the box ) So I will keep them together.
By the way, as you noted the slipcase does make it fit perfectly as a hand in a glove....which makes me wonder if that really is an accident?

[der-hase-fee]

Michael,

the only possible answer in my opinion an be that either these MK boxes were given out only for handselected men or that for example the people at the time received it some time after their wedding ceremony or just did not have the abilities to take more than one ot two pics of their own wedding - my grandfather married in the summer of 1945 and there was nobody in his village that owned a camera, so they had to engage a photographer whom they had to pay for every single shot - so they just ordered one wedding picture as farmers in front of their barn and that was it!

In general as a wedding present for sure - but for sure not every marrying SS-couple got one box (would have been thousands of boxes...).

In my opinion it was given as a special honour gift like an award - the only existing example with the authentic history onby I am aware of is the MK box that Michael Wittmann and his wife received when they married.

It now resides in a german collection - and still I do believe that not every existing MK box of today is authentic.

Thanks for the constructive post. Would appreciate you substantiating your knowledge regarding Wittmann's casket with provenance. Also, since you seem to know where to look, may I suggest that you try to acquire pictures of Wittmann's casket, which then might or not prove either you or the owners of MK caskets posting on this forum right.

[der-hase-fee]

Hello der hase fee,
I am not in disagreement with you, as I cant find legitamite information of any kind to argue with you one way or the other.
So I must ask: Where did you learn this?
I have found no TR era documentation nor any theories backed up with actual evidence on these "MK" Boxes, of any kind.
All I have ever found are theories and educated guesses. Nothing wrong with educated guesses, but not as helpful as I prefer.

As an aside, the slip case , and the book came with the box
(with no claim as being original book with the box ) So I will keep them together.
By the way, as you noted the slipcase does make it fit perfectly as a hand in a glove....which makes me wonder if that really is an accident?

Sorry for flunking with my previous statement: Mine did not come with a slipcase.

[der-hase-fee]

Hello der hase fee,
I am not in disagreement with you, as I cant find legitamite information of any kind to argue with you one way or the other.
So I must ask: Where did you learn this?
I have found no TR era documentation nor any theories backed up with actual evidence on these "MK" Boxes, of any kind.
All I have ever found are theories and educated guesses. Nothing wrong with educated guesses, but not as helpful as I prefer.

As an aside, the slip case , and the book came with the box
(with no claim as being original book with the box ) So I will keep them together.
By the way, as you noted the slipcase does make it fit perfectly as a hand in a glove....which makes me wonder if that really is an accident?

BTW - I am sure you have seen it, but what a typo - 1914 instead of 1941 !

[Michael Fay]

Sorry for flunking with my previous statement: Mine did not come with a slipcase.

Too bad,
I hoped for some researchable lead.
Others are hoping too.
Michael

[Michael Fay]

Michael,

the only possible answer in my opinion an be that either these MK boxes were given out only for handselected men or that for example the people at the time received it some time after their wedding ceremony or just did not have the abilities to take more than one ot two pics of their own wedding - my grandfather married in the summer of 1945 and there was nobody in his village that owned a camera, so they had to engage a photographer whom they had to pay for every single shot - so they just ordered one wedding picture as farmers in front of their barn and that was it!

In general as a wedding present for sure - but for sure not every marrying SS-couple got one box (would have been thousands of boxes...).

In my opinion it was given as a special honour gift like an award - the only existing example with the authentic history onby I am aware of is the MK box that Michael Wittmann and his wife received when they married.

It now resides in a german collection - and still I do believe that not every existing MK box of today is authentic.

Interesting and plausible. It roughly fits with Robin's ideas that these boxes were not made in vast quantities ( although Robin believes it is because the box did not get given to the newlyweds).
It could even be that only a very few special people in SS actually were given one(as you have said), and that most were re-used for multiple marriages as Robin has posited.

Oh yeah,
as for fakes. I am sure it is very possible. Very possible indeed that a tricky fake has been made.

[Thorsten B.]

To der-hase-fee:

By reading my comments here carefully you will come to the conclusion that they are all constructive anyway.

Concerning Wittmann´s casket I do not post any pics of anything without permission of the current owner of the piece - I do not want to appear as being not trustworthy.

To your last sentence: "which then might or not prove either you or the owners of MK caskets posting on this forum right.":

As you will know a constructive comparison needs in the end of the day a personal inspection of for example
the Wittmann casket and the casket from the beginning of this thread - I stated already at the beginning of this thread that I believe this piece is not authentic.

[der-hase-fee]

To der-hase-fee:

By reading my comments here carefully you will come to the conclusion that they are all constructive anyway.

Concerning Wittmann´s casket I do not post any pics of anything without permission of the current owner of the piece - I do not want to appear as being not trustworthy.

To your last sentence: "which then might or not prove either you or the owners of MK caskets posting on this forum right.":

As you will know a constructive comparison needs in the end of the day a personal inspection of for example
the Wittmann casket and the casket from the beginning of this thread - I stated already at the beginning of this thread that I believe this piece is not authentic.

Maybe my previous post wasn't straight forward. So I am going to ask simple questions:

1) Where can the provenance for the Wittmann box be found ?

2) Why don't you just ask for permission to post pictures ?

3) When did you personally inspected that casket shown in this thread ?

[Capt. R]

Hope you are getting along with the folks in Northwestern Germany okay. They are said to be a stubborn bunch. Sometimes referred to as "fish heads" by the Southerners, too.

My people are Southern Germans.
Did you buy them from Keith? What is the story on the middle one for the benefit of the forum...

[Thorsten B.]

To der-hase-fee:

1.: Most of the historical facts (like this about the Wittmann casket) I share here have not been written down in any book yet since one has to do private research for that - and since the current owner of the Wittmann casket writes very good books by himself I think he will come forward with his fine piece and it´s story by himself - and because of that circumstance I am quite sure he would not be pleased if somebody else does it by using his pics and infos.

2.: Good idea - I surely wouldn´t have thought about that kind of possibility...

3.: If you would have carefully read my last comment here you could have noticed that I did not had the chance to inspect it personally yet.

[RUHL13]

Quote: "In my opinion it was given as a special honour gift like an award - the only existing example with the authentic history onby I am aware of is the MK box that Michael Wittmann and his wife received when they married.

It now resides in a german collection - and still I do believe that not every existing MK box of today is authentic"

So now you believe they did exist?
Has anyone seen a very crude attempt to fake these?
All shown here look the same with high quality craftsmanship.
And again, as Robin has stated, these were not gifts, but stayed with in the Allgemeine SS,
and only the mk itself was the wedding gift.

[der-hase-fee]

To der-hase-fee:

1.: Most of the historical facts (like this about the Wittmann casket) I share here have not been written down in any book yet since one has to do private research for that - and since the current owner of the Wittmann casket writes very good books by himself I think he will come forward with his fine piece and it´s story by himself - and because of that circumstance I am quite sure he would not be pleased if somebody else does it by using his pics and infos.

2.: Good idea - I surely wouldn´t have thought about that kind of possibility...

3.: If you would have carefully read my last comment here you could have noticed that I did not had the chance to inspect it personally yet.

Kind of answers I had expected. Maybe you can answer these questions instead :

1) Have you ever been in direct contact with the owner of Wittmann's casket ?

2) Does any provenance for the Wittmann box exist other than those facts on your mind ?

3) Have you ever personally inspected any MK casket ?

[der-hase-fee]

My people are Southern Germans.
Did you buy them from Keith? What is the story on the middle one for the benefit of the forum...

So you have German roots and live in NW Germany but haven't picked up the language yet ?

Yes, these used to be Keith's.

You can find the story of the third casket - or more or less all I know - in another thread on this forum.

[Thorsten B.]

To your questions:

1.: Yes, in Wewelsburg.

2.: If Wittmann´s widow gave a written statement to the owner it does exist.

3.: No.

Want to keep on playing question-answer games?

[Capt. R]

So you have German roots and live in NW Germany but haven't picked up the language yet ?

Yes, these used to be Keith's.

You can find the story of the third casket - or more or less all I know - in another thread on this forum.

You have a talent for reading between the lines things that are not there but funny how you expect everyone else to reply directly to your questions. Enjoy your wood boxes.