44 dot material, expert help please.

[Fritz]

Frankly, after reading the whole thread again, I must add that the distance between the green dot and the other one can be easly shifted by anyone who has the screens, and if I am not mistaken the fabric on that sample is original.
Thus the distance between the dots in my opinion is not a 100% indication of genuity or reproductionity of the fabric. The ss did print their camo by hand and not only by rollers in initial stages, and in KZ camp setting, thus they used flat panel like screens as well.

The "Dot pattern" is a roller type print and not at all screen printed. The ss itself didn't print any of their patterns. They had a own group of designer and artists to develop their own patterns. After a patern was developed or proto types were needed the production was done in factories that were specialists in fabric printing.

Noone has ever said in this thread that there are no varitions in that pattern. You just have to compaire them and you will see that the pattern on the cut off piece matches those posted by sepp to 100%.


Cheers

Fritz

[Szadkowski1945]

Re

The "Dot pattern" is a roller type print and not at all screen printed. The ss itself didn't print any of their patterns. They had a own group of designer and artists to develop their own patterns. After a patern was developed or proto types were needed the production was done in factories that were specialists in fabric printing.

Noone has ever said in this thread that there are no varitions in that pattern. You just have to compaire them and you will see that the pattern on the cut off piece matches those posted by sepp to 100%.


Cheers

Fritz

Hello,
On textile weaving-yes I will agree it does require a loom or a factory. Besides the fact that large scale textile printing was done in factories within Germany
itself, it was also done on a smaller scale in KZ that was run by the SS within some european countries-there hand printing was utilized using screens. Please note the 44 dot pattern or erbsentarnung is a one sided camo and requires 5 screens the reverse being the totaly white color of the natural cotton/baumwolle. On the pattern from Sepps pic- YES its the same pattern, BUT that other fabric is a totaly different HBT with 2Xlarger width. I had seen all types of Janke HBT and all of them are different from original, without an exception, including the ones that were posted, this pertains to their denstity, fabric content, weave, most importantly mechanical properties.

[Szadkowski1945]

Re

thus I still believe that the piece from beggining of the thread is a genuine piece

[Fritz]

[quote=Szadkowski1945;1680468]Hello,
Please note the 44 dot pattern or erbsentarnung is a one sided camo and requires 5 screens the reverse being the totaly white color of the natural cotton/baumwolle.quote]


I would suggest not to note that as it is wrong. The dot pattern is not a hand screened pattern, it is a roller type.

But nevermind.


Cheers

Fritz

[B. N. Singer]

.... On the pattern from Sepps pic- YES its the same pattern, BUT that other fabric is a totaly different HBT with 2Xlarger width. I had seen all types of Janke HBT and all of them are different from original, without an exception, including the ones that were posted, this pertains to their denstity, fabric content, weave, most importantly mechanical properties.

Interesting point about the HBT weave being a wider width on the reproduction cloth. Has this feature been rectified in the "newer generation" cloth?

B. N. Singer

[Szadkowski1945]

Interesting point about the HBT weave being a wider width on the reproduction cloth. Has this feature been rectified in the "newer generation" cloth?

B. N. Singer

Yes it has been rectified, but not to the point were it would fool an expert.

[Szadkowski1945]

and labs that can carbon isotope date the fabric for big $'s

[Szadkowski1945]

Re

the weave simply is not the same

[Szadkowski1945]

hbt

In Janke's hbt the weave is different even though some of their hbt had the correct size for a very very limited and short time period

[Anthony Evans]

wrong thread

[Anthony Evans]

wrong thread

[Anthony Evans]

wrong thread

[Anthony Evans]

wrong thread

[Anthony Evans]

wrong thread

[Remy Spezzano]

Sorry for posting so late in the game. I 've been following this thread for over a week now.

I would like to clarify that the piece of HBT cloth used in this example is 100% Janke HBT. As soon as I saw the first photo posted I recognised his camo material right away.

Way back in 1986-1992 my business RZM Imports, Inc. sold only original German WW2 items and also Janke repro items which i supplied to reenactors. I've handled this material over and over again and also had the oppurtunity to visit Herr Janke in his home in which he explained to me how he went about making his camo HBT material.

I've also collected over the years some really nice original Waffen-SS dot uniform sets and also over the years I have seen plenty of attempts by the reenactor community to try and reproduce dot HBT camo. The best one ever produced was by SM Wholesale.

Anyway after all is said and done the piece shown on page one is nothing more then a tropical sleeve eagle sewn to a piece of Janke HBT material.

best regards,
Remy