44 dot material, expert help please.

[Fritz]

Thank you for the analysis Mr Hahne! Have you noted additional differences in the subject patterns?

Mr. Davis,
the only advise I could give you is that you take 5 minutes and look at it carefully. Especially compare the width of the different prints, and the distance between the "dots". Then compair the forms of the different prints.

Cheers

Fritz

[Mike Davis]

Thank you Sepp and Frtiz. Sepp, by the 'misses', you're referring to the 'roller slip' that leaves the original fabric colour outlined at the edges of the dots I assume right?

[Josef Hahne]

Mike,
Yes, roller slip. I like that term better than "misses".
Thanks,
Sepp

[Lorenz]

Hi Sepp and Fritz!
You are perfect for the FORENSIC SECTION of the SS Tony Barto Uniforms of the WA Forum!
Congrats!
BY Lorenz!

Mike,
Yes, roller slip. I like that term better than "misses".
Thanks,
Sepp

[B. N. Singer]

Very interesting,

Thanks to ALL who have taken their time with this fascinating thread.

B. N. Singer

[TONY Q.W.]

Sepp, fascinating and analytical information in such a difficult subject (ss dot pattern cammo). Can we conclude that the 'printing pattern' inside the circle is evident in almost every fake made by Janke?

I own two original jackets ( I cannot post pics due to lack of equipment) with the same printing pattern as in the circle on post #89 (connected dots). Would that "little" diffrence of the two 'connecting dots' would be sufficient trait to differentiate bad from good from now on??

PS. I re-edited my post for second time

[TONY Q.W.]

Answering my own question the answer would be YES (sorry I'm little slow tonight).

Sepp and everybody involved in this thread I must say congratulations . One of the most 'ground breaking' threads in the ss forum regarding dot pattern tunics. I admit that I stand corrected in this thread and I learned a lot (who would imagine, such a small detail such a big difference)!

P.S Fritz I owe you an apology!

[Fritz]

Sepp, fascinating and analytical information in such a difficult subject (ss dot pattern cammo). Can we conclude that the 'printing pattern' inside the circle is evident in almost every fake made by Janke?

I own two original jackets ( I cannot post pics due to lack of equipment) with the same printing pattern as in the circle on post #89 (connected dots). Would that "little" diffrence of the two 'connecting dots' would be sufficient trait to differentiate bad from good from now on??

PS. I re-edited my post for second time

To answer these questions, not in Sepp's name but from my point of view.

The Janke pattern will remain as it is until they make new rollers, I highly doubt that will happen soon as the reenactors buy janke stuff without a "100% pattern" as well and the rollers will last a while. There is only the risk of someone new that wants to enter the market making a new pattern...But it really takes a lot of knowledge and high skills to get the job done....One tiny mistake will destroy the whole "work".

It is a indication as well as the small green "dot" that you can see in the upper right corner of the original prints' pictures....note the distance of it to the large dark green section to its left....On janke prints the distance is larger. There are more examples like these that give away the janke print...even on that small cutoff.... but there were plenty of examples given.

If Sepp doesn't mind he might post some more shots of his janke stuff so we can make this the "janke identificaton" thread.


Cheers

Fritz

[Fritz]

P.S Fritz I owe you an apology!

Really no problem ...

Cheers

Fritz

[SMP]

Well Fritz,
It looks like we are coming to the end of this thread, unless someone comes up with a 100% original jacket with the exact same print
Can I just confirm with all you SS insignia experts that at least the eagle is an original one ?

Regards,
Steve

[TONY Q.W.]

Fritz, thanks for the additional info/observations

[Fritz]

Well Fritz,
It looks like we are coming to the end of this thread, unless someone comes up with a 100% original jacket with the exact same print
Can I just confirm with all you SS insignia experts that at least the eagle is an original one ?

Regards,
Steve

Steve,
sorry but you see it needs to match....And unfortunatly it does match.... but not the pattern we would like it to match.

Cheers

Fritz

[Josef Hahne]

Liebe SMP,
I'm, sorry to say that your camo material looks to be made by Janke. As for your Adler, I hope it is real since I have two that are identical to it, One is sewn to one of my Janke's and the other is unfolded. Pehaps if you don't get a reply on it you may have to start a new thread posing the question about your Adler. I will be watching that thread since I too wil need an answer to mine.

As to posting more fotos of my Janke items, I would be glad to. Anything that helps us all is a good thing! I have an Item from GMAX that has very similar markings to the Janke but the fabric is not nearly as good. I also have plenty of oak, blurred edge, and plaintree from SM Wholsale that I can post as well as Blurred edge and Oak from At The Front. Is there a place I can put this where all can find it easily? SM Wholesale has made a fantastic reproduction of an Oak M43 Tarnjacke that I just added to my "collection". I can post fotos of this as well for referance.

This thread has been very interesting to comment on and I want to thank Fritz for his help, Mike Davis for his fotos and everyone else that posted great questions on the subject.

Sepp

[Felix]

SMP;

Thanks for taking the initiative for this thread! Really a great way to handle my doubts about the camo patch. My respect for you!

You can be sure that the eagle is original! Tropical eagles are frequent, so frequent that they often use them for faking cut offs, and can be seen even on wool cut offs. And I think that cut off of yours will be a nice example to have even though we now know its on fake camo material.

I also want to second what others have said here before. What a superb thread on dot camo!

I humbly bow to the great work done by Fritz, Sepp and others for educating us all. Camo for sure is a different dimension of SS.

Cheers,

"Felix" - N.Hansson

[Szadkowski1945]

44 Dot Camo

Frankly, after reading the whole thread again, I must add that the distance between the green dot and the other one can be easly shifted by anyone who has the screens, and if I am not mistaken the fabric on that sample is original.
Thus the distance between the dots in my opinion is not a 100% indication of genuity or reproductionity of the fabric. The ss did print their camo by hand and not only by rollers in initial stages, and in KZ camp setting, thus they used flat panel like screens as well.