44 dot material, expert help please.

[Fritz]

Oh Fritz, No, please do not say that!!

I am not taking exception with your opinion! Fact is, I would like to know myself!!!

B. N. Singer

Don't say what?.....

Ok, I have compaired the pattern with several period examples and the print is not right. The pattern is a "rough" copy of an original and I don't think it's a "variation".

I don't see any missprints ( I admit that this can only be a small indication especialy on such a small piece of cloth ), the weave of the fabric doesn't give me the impression of a period made fabric and also the colors are not convincing me in this combination. The tropical eagle is the "crown" put on top of all that IMO.

Unfortunatly I have no "Janke" print piece here to compair but I believe that the chances are high to find the exact pattern on a janke piece.


Cheers

Fritz

[Josef Hahne]

Fritz,
I do. I will send two pictures of Janke print on HBT. I hope they help.
Sepp

[Josef Hahne]

Foto Nr. 2

[Fritz]

Hi Sepp,
the section that we are looking for is in the upper right corner of your first pic. Could you move your camera a bit more in that direction?


Thanks!!

Fritz

[Josef Hahne]

Fritz,
That first foto was of the back near the back seam. I'll see if I can find a repeat in a larger area. I tave 2 Jankes so I'll look at each one for the biggest area. It may take a few minutes.

Sepp

[Josef Hahne]

Finding a complete pattern with no interuptions was harder than I thought it would be. I moved the camera over a little but the back seam interupts the pattern a bit.
Sorry.

Sepp

[Fritz]

Thanks Sepp, IMO it's the same pattern.


Cheers

Fritz

[Josef Hahne]

Fritz,
I see it! It appears to be a Janke pattern. My foto is the same pattern as the one in the beginning of the thread, except upside down.
Sepp

[Fritz]

Fritz,
I see it! It appears to be a Janke pattern. My foto is the same pattern as the one in the beginning of the thread, except upside down.
Sepp

Yes, also the colors vary and the base material (is yours a older or newer janke tunic?) differs. Still to me the print is the same and different from originals.


Cheers

Fritz

[Josef Hahne]

Fritz,
The janke in both fotos are about 8 years old. The second is a little more "used" than the first but the color is about the same. What about the HBT pattern on the revese of the thread foto? Does Janke's material match up favorably with original HBT? From what I'm told, Janke has no plans of printing any more Dot camo on HBT, but there are enough items sold in the past to make sure there is no shortage of Janke HBT dot camo on the market!

Sepp

[Fritz]

Fritz,
The janke in both fotos are about 8 years old. The second is a little more "used" than the first but the color is about the same. What about the HBT pattern on the revese of the thread foto? Does Janke's material match up favorably with original HBT? From what I'm told, Janke has no plans of printing any more Dot camo on HBT, but there are enough items sold in the past to make sure there is no shortage of Janke HBT dot camo on the market!

Sepp

I remember that I have seen repro dot items from ca. 1996 that had a similar HBT weave (a bit more norrow in the vertical way than your two examples) and matching colors when compaired to the piece of cloth.

Unfortunatly the piece of cloth is "well" aged so a very detailed few on this -I repeat- very small piece is not possible anymore. And I don't care too much for reenactors items. As far as I know Janke is still exsisting and they still make "dot" but at the moment not on HBT fabric, at least this is what I have heard. As everyone knows they are also making a lot of other items beside "dot". IMO your HBT material doesn't come as close to orignials as the one the small cloth piece is made of or that the dot items in the midd 90s were made of...but the reason for this impression may also be the pictures.

Cheers

Fritz

[MartyC]

ss

Another criteria to look at on this cloth is to see if in fact it is a linen type cloth which an original with this color of backing would be (off white backing). Also, I do not see any evidence of roller slip on this sample which you would find on an original that would leave a "ghosting" pattern on several of the individual dots. Sort of like a white outline on perhaps 1/3 of an individual dot. Caveat to this is that you would not necessarily see this on such a small sample. Another observation that I vaguely remember from the past is with the repeat of the pattern in CM that Janke got wrong. It is different on originals but of course it would also be hard to figure this on a sample that is so small. I too would have doubts about this individual piece without a "feel" of the cloth mainly because the tell tale signs one might see in a photo are not there. Very valid point was made about the tropical eagle on the dot pattern which one must consider strongly.

Marty

[TONY Q.W.]

In addition, let's not forget that 'old stock material' (original HBT) was used post war. So we can have the correct (original) HBT material but with post war printing on it. Many post war dot pattern jackets exhibit this type of combo (right material/fake printing)

[LUCKYFEZ]

In "Waffen-SS Uniforms In Color Photographs" by Andrew Steven, pg 45 there is an orignal example of camo eagle used on an original camo tunic. Yes they were used during the war. It's rare, but used.

Dan

[Felix]

In "Waffen-SS Uniforms In Color Photographs" by Andrew Steven, pg 45 there is an orignal example of camo eagle used on an original camo tunic. Yes they were used during the war. It's rare, but used.

Dan

Thats a correct observation; However we dont know if thats an originally applied eagle or not. If true its ofcourse very interesting! I just relate to what seems to be the general consensus among advanced collectors about tropical insignias on camo.

However the issue here is if the initially shown pea pattern camo cloth is authentic or not. If the camo is original there is ofcourse a great chance the the whole piece is an original cut off - and a superb item.

More opinions from the advanced camo collectors would sure be helpfull.

Cheers,
"Felix" - N. Hansson