a short note on cxn serial numbers on Uboat binoculars

[Mikedenmark]

Updated august 8th, 2014.
one new 7x50. A new high number

6x30 bakelite: plus 25 found

380210 Lowest observed serial number
380607 Ebay jan-feb 2014
380993
384156 bright red bakelite
406452
413138
414019
422489 bright red bakelite
425369
426219
428628
711045 bright red bakelite
7????? Unknown, I disregarded this one as wrong, untill I decidedly saw the one in the 7xxxxx range. I could not find it again. It was on a french site.

8x60 Uboot (kommandantenglas) 19 found

426531 Ebay feb 2013
426553
426559 Seeger grey book, page 384
426560
426579
426586
426590 "added after the original posting" ebay sale january 2013
426594
426616 ebay jan 2013. 616 may be 516. Or even 425516. Hard to see on the photo´s. 6616 chosen as most likely.
426628
426630
426655 Last 3 digits uncertain. Might be disregarded.
426658
426668
426669
426678
426690 Ebay.com may 2014.
426713 Seen in Australia.
426714

456942 No photo of this serial number has been seen. It was reported only. May be a misreading of 426642. Or, now we have seen several 7x50 below 457xxx, in fact a 7x50.

7x50 Uboat, 10 found

456864
456879
456902
456942 See the note above, at the end of the 8x60 list.
457002
457128
457239
457241
457262
457263
457281

10x50 Porro I

461596

[Mikedenmark]

One question. Does anyone know more about a german plan to second source production of vital items at different producers, to secure deliveries?
I saw a reference somewhere about this. It would mean the original producer would have to hand over needed technical information to make it possible.
It might also explain, why several factories started production up at a late date. Even making sophistated equipment.

Maybe it was more about second source than delivery numbers?
Busch may not have been asked to deliver much, but rather, to keep a small production running, just in case.

Updated august 8-9th, 2014.
one new 7x50. A new high number
Added 9th august another 7x50.

6x30 bakelite: plus 25 found

380210 Lowest observed serial number
380607 Ebay jan-feb 2014
380993
384156 bright red bakelite
406452
413138
414019
422489 bright red bakelite
425369
426219
428628
711045 bright red bakelite
7????? Unknown, I disregarded this one as wrong, untill I decidedly saw the one in the 7xxxxx range. I could not find it again. It was on a french site.

8x60 Uboot (kommandantenglas) 19 found

426531 Ebay feb 2013
426553
426559 Seeger grey book, page 384
426560
426579
426586
426590 "added after the original posting" ebay sale january 2013
426594
426616 ebay jan 2013. 616 may be 516. Or even 425516. Hard to see on the photo´s. 6616 chosen as most likely.
426628
426630
426655 Last 3 digits uncertain. Might be disregarded.
426658
426668
426669
426678
426690 Ebay.com may 2014.
426713 Seen in Australia.
426714

456942 No photo of this serial number has been seen. It was reported only. May be a misreading of 426642. Or, now we have seen several 7x50 below 457xxx, in fact a 7x50.

7x50 Uboat, 11 found

456864
456879
456902
456942 See the note above, at the end of the 8x60 list.
457001
457002
457128
457239
457241
457262
457263
457281

10x50 Porro I

461596

[Mikedenmark]

Updated august 22nd, 2014.
one new 7x50.
In the future, I expect to keep the list this short.

8x60 Uboot (kommandantenglas) 19 found

426531 Ebay feb 2013
426553
426559 Seeger grey book, page 384
426560
426579
426586
426590 "added after the original posting" ebay sale january 2013
426594
426616 ebay jan 2013. 616 may be 516. Or even 425516. Hard to see on the photo´s. 6616 chosen as most likely.
426628
426630
426655 Last 3 digits uncertain. Might be disregarded.
426658
426668
426669
426678
426690 Ebay.com may 2014.
426713 Seen in Australia.
426714

456942 No photo of this serial number has been seen. It was reported only. May be a misreading of 426642. Or, now we have seen several 7x50 below 457xxx, in fact a 7x50.

7x50 Uboat, 12 found

456864
456879
456889
456902
456942 See the note above, at the end of the 8x60 list.
457001
457002
457128
457239
457241
457262
457263
457281

[Sgt Bilko]

Another cxn 8x60 for your list Mike; 426503 - the third one made and earliest known so far?

Notice how the left ocular tube has the scalloped recesses for a screwdriver but they're merely flattened on the right;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-BENUTZE...p2047675.l2557


The same as the one on Atlantik Pirat's site;

http://www.atlantik-pirat.com/Showcase1.htm


And the same with the another on this list mentioned by Dienstuhr - cxn 426594 - so maybe a pattern there?

[Mikedenmark]

Updated november 21st, 2014.
one new 8x60.
Thank you to Sgt Bilko. Yes, it is the ealiest we have recorded yet.
I checked ebay earlier this week, but didn´t see any new cxn´s. Nor did Google yield anything new.

Last week I saw somewhere that germany put about 1100 Uboats at sea. I wonder how many bino´s they planned for that? 1100 boats means about 11000 Binoculars. But what if they only had about 50-60 boats at sea at any given time? Then less than 1000 would be enough.
I know for a fact that two of my 7x50 were taken from small surface wessels not related to Uboats.
So, I don´t understand how they decided what was given to a ship. Maybe just what they had on the shelf?
The relation between the rubber clad zeiss and the beh´s are an interesting issue.
But, today, a new low 8x60 cxn serial number.


8x60 Uboot (kommandantenglas) 20 found

426503 Ebay nov. 2014
426531 Ebay feb 2013
426553
426559 Seeger grey book, page 384
426560
426579
426586
426590 "added after the original posting" ebay sale january 2013
426594
426616 ebay jan 2013. 616 may be 516. Or even 425516. Hard to see on the photo´s. 6616 chosen as most likely.
426628
426630
426655 Last 3 digits uncertain. Might be disregarded.
426658
426668
426669
426678
426690 Ebay.com may 2014.
426713 Seen in Australia.
426714

456942 No photo of this serial number has been seen. It was reported only. May be a misreading of 426642. Or, now we have seen several 7x50 below 457xxx, in fact a 7x50.

7x50 Uboat, 12 found

456864
456879
456889
456902
456942 See the note above, at the end of the 8x60 list.
457001
457002
457128
457239
457241
457262
457263
457281

[Mikedenmark]

Interesting difference at those screws.
I wonder why.
Could be that the change was made at the foundry.
If they made one part, and then was given a free hand to make a part that would allow the screwing, only with a simpler design.

Now, are there later cxn´s with identical right-left designs?

I find it hard to believe there should be internal differences from side to side.

Undoubtedly there were design changes on the covers. Early Zeiss covers differs from later production types. But I don´t know why.

[Sgt Bilko]

I find it hard to believe there should be internal differences from side to side


I don't think the lack of scalloping affects the internals - the ocular tube is thick enough to be cut away on the outside and still be perfectly circular inside I think (but I've not opened a blc one to see)

Interesting that you mention the numbers of U Boats - I was wondering myself if the number of boats (x10 if 10 were on each boat) equaled the number made (plus spares in stores).

It should be easy enough to total the Zeiss U Boat models but, for beh and cxn - who knows?

Talking of U Boat binoculars in non U Boat situations - if you ever watch the film The Black Tent about a guy going back to the desert to find out how his brother died during the war, it shows an Afrika Korps officer with a pair of blc U 7x50's around his neck visiting Roman ruins in the desert. Probably as far removed from an Atlantic storm as you could get!

[Sgt Bilko]

Notice too how the slope of the metal under the eyecup hinge is different on the left to the right side on both 426503 and the one mentioned by Dienstuhr - cxn 426594.

And both right sides have flat ocular barrel tops (under the eyering) but both left tops have slopes - as on blc models.

It looks as though there were a few changes made at the foundry in regards to the ocular barrels....

[Mikedenmark]

They might have received a batch of parts from Zeiss.
Or Zeiss 8x60 has those same differences ?

I guess we need to convene a collector meeting.
If we all bring what we have of 8x60-ies, and line them all up, we may get to see the differences.

Imagine that.... 50 blc 8x60 in one long line.

It might look a bit like this:
.

[Mikedenmark]

Updated february 13th, 2015.
one new 7x50.
Not much happening, but no reason to stop either.

8x60 Uboot (kommandantenglas) 20 found

426503 Ebay nov. 2014
426531 Ebay feb 2013
426553
426559 Seeger grey book, page 384
426560
426579
426586
426590 "added after the original posting" ebay sale january 2013
426594
426616 ebay jan 2013. 616 may be 516. Or even 425516. Hard to see on the photo´s. 6616 chosen as most likely.
426628
426630
426655 Last 3 digits uncertain. Might be disregarded.
426658
426668
426669
426678
426690 Ebay.com may 2014.
426713 Seen in Australia.
426714

456942 No photo of this serial number has been seen. It was reported only. May be a misreading of 426642. Or, now we have seen several 7x50 below 457xxx, in fact a 7x50.

7x50 Uboat, 13 found

456864
456879
456889
456902
456942 See the note above, at the end of the 8x60 list.
457001
457002
457086 (NEW)
457128
457239
457241
457262
457263
457281

[Gumball]

During WW2, in Great Britian as well as Canada and the United States, the need for specific items manufactured as quickly as possible, and in greater quantity, called for companies manufacturing items "under license". I would think that Germany would do the same - especially as the manufacturing areas of the country were bombed more and more.

,

One question. Does anyone know more about a german plan to second source production of vital items at different producers, to secure deliveries?
I saw a reference somewhere about this. It would mean the original producer would have to hand over needed technical information to make it possible.
It might also explain, why several factories started production up at a late date. Even making sophistated equipment.

Maybe it was more about second source than delivery numbers?
Busch may not have been asked to deliver much, but rather, to keep a small production running, just in case.


461596

[Sgt Bilko]

the need for specific items manufactured as quickly as possible, and in greater quantity, called for companies manufacturing items "under license"


What you've suggested may explain how different German maker's ended up making the same style of 6x30 - Busch, Voigtlander, Swarovski etc all ended up looking the same although they began the war looking different. Maybe they all built to a standardised design?

Much as the Flakglas 10x80's - a Busch design that others built to. Or the Zeiss designed blc / cxn 7x50's and 8x60's that Mike has done so much to catalogue

[zeissasembi]

I guess we need to convene a collector meeting.
If we all bring what we have of 8x60-ies, and line them all up, we may get to see the differences.

Imagine that.... 50 blc 8x60 in one long line.

It might look a bit like this:
.

Or outside with a longer line than this one in the link and 50 of the 8x60 is in use at the same time

http://www.binoculaires.org/article-...-57571668.html

http://www.binoculaires.org/page/2

[Mikedenmark]

I like the idea of putting large binoculars to use at public event´s.

At Kronborg castle, in Helsingør, I have heard that a local amateur astronomer club are lining up some telescopes occassionally and inviting people to try them out, mainly watching ship´s passing by. ( They do get more ship´s a the Suez canal, but helsingør is still a good place for ship spotting)

Personally, I can look at that line up in France, and think about the 300 plus kilo of gear that needs to be moved to do that.

Then: Foggy weather.

Heh Heh.

Guess one needs to have a storage unit at ground level.

But I like the idea.

( I have been at a nice place above Bergen in Norway, where I would have loved to bring a large german binocular. The range was 30 kilometers at least. Yes, there was bright sunshine. Even in Bergen, sunshine do occur
https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Rundemanen+sendestasjon/@60.412227,5.360175,3a,75y,260.95h,88.28t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sR2R9kXGUz-QAAAQXR3VLnA!2e0!3e11!4m2!3m1!1s0x0000000000000000 :0xd63344fcd4567ca1 Thank god for google. Just turn around the photo 180 degree´s to get the view. Or pick another photo at the bottom.
This one is not quite so high up, but still nice. https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Run...3344fcd4567ca1)

[Mikedenmark]

For those looking for cxn. The update is now 5-6 replies below.
And my thread has now passed 10000 views.
Do I get the Wehrmacht Awards Award for this ?