Announcement

**L11-VELASCO** · 07-08-2013, 03:27 PM

No lights

**R.R.** · 07-08-2013, 04:19 PM

Hi Velasco,

There is some info about it at post #311 at the cap tally thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=161009

Best Regards,

Ricardo

**L11-VELASCO** · 07-08-2013, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by R.R. View Post

Hi Velasco,

There is some info about it at post #311 at the cap tally thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=161009

Best Regards,

Ricardo

I read it and I can understand than is impossible to know the difference,isn,t it?

Many thanks

**L11-VELASCO** · 07-09-2013, 04:18 AM

More lights are appreciated

**CSForrester** · 07-09-2013, 06:54 AM

Hello Fernando,

i also watched the auction on ebay germany, and i am shure it is tally from the Kriegsmarine/Reichsmarine period 1930-1937.
Why ? Hard to explain in english.
The official tallies from 1937-1939 are absolut identic to the first tallies from summer 1956, but the letters woven from artificial silk. End of 1959 the official Bundesmarine tallies were woven with a different method and different material, so you can recognize what is Kriegsmarine/Bundesmarine very easy, the the above mentioned thread.
In time of Bundesmarine, after spring 1956, there were never official distributed tallies with letters woven from metall threads. But a lot were sold by the local dealers. They have a slightly different style of letter, most with more distance between the letters, and other materials as those from the 1930s. The ribbons are thicker and not with the touch of silk, the letters most with a tone of green, there were a lot of copper in the thread.
The tally on the picture shows all signs of the 1930s, please post detail-pictures if you hold it in your hand, then we can say more about it.

Best regards
Markus

**R.R.** · 07-09-2013, 07:34 AM

Hi Markus,

Curiously, my Muerwick tally has some green (verdigris) at metal lettering too and gold color looks less yellow than other tallies I have, I think it's a private purchased one:

Best Regards,

Ricardo

**L11-VELASCO** · 07-09-2013, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by CSForrester View Post

Hello Fernando,

i also watched the auction on ebay germany, and i am shure it is tally from the Kriegsmarine/Reichsmarine period 1930-1937.
Why ? Hard to explain in english.
The official tallies from 1937-1939 are absolut identic to the first tallies from summer 1956, but the letters woven from artificial silk. End of 1959 the official Bundesmarine tallies were woven with a different method and different material, so you can recognize what is Kriegsmarine/Bundesmarine very easy, the the above mentioned thread.
In time of Bundesmarine, after spring 1956, there were never official distributed tallies with letters woven from metall threads. But a lot were sold by the local dealers. They have a slightly different style of letter, most with more distance between the letters, and other materials as those from the 1930s. The ribbons are thicker and not with the touch of silk, the letters most with a tone of green, there were a lot of copper in the thread.
The tally on the picture shows all signs of the 1930s, please post detail-pictures if you hold it in your hand, then we can say more about it.

Best regards
Markus

Hi Markus
Happy to hear from you and very complete the info you let us

For sure I will be posting tally pics inmediatelly I receive it.

Bis Später

Fernando

**CSForrester** · 07-09-2013, 12:18 PM

@Ricardo:

hard to explain the difference without some tallies to compare in our hands .......
at first, your Marineschule Muerwik is shure a private purchased tally. With the change of the fonts to german script all "Umlaute" ae oe ue and so on changed to the german style with two dots over the vocal.
So - Muerwik is never an official distributed tally and - i guess it is longer than 120cm, an other prove for a non-official tally.
Otherwise it is from the time not post-war. All postwar produced tallies with metal letters i have seen are woven without the small "shadow"-dots around the letters on the obverse.
I will post some pictures to compare different Mürwik tallies next time.

Best regards
Markus

**CSForrester** · 07-09-2013, 12:36 PM

I have some problems to show the tallies in the best size, but may be you can see on the detailed M the difference to the Kriegsmarine. Also the structure of the ribbons is different. Otherwise these Bundesmarine tallies for Marineschule Mürwik with the long "sharp" s are very rare, most have already the small round s.

Best regards
Markus

Attached Files

**CSForrester** · 07-09-2013, 12:40 PM

... and the reverse, also the obvers of the 2nd pattern tally with artificial silk. The first edition from spring 1956 - is identical to the former Kriegsmarine tallies in artificial silk an you can only make a difference when they have full length.
Kriegsmarine artificial silk: max. 120cm
Bundesmarine: always about 150cm.

Markus

Attached Files

**L11-VELASCO** · 07-09-2013, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by CSForrester View Post

I have some problems to show the tallies in the best size, but may be you can see on the detailed M the difference to the Kriegsmarine. Also the structure of the ribbons is different. Otherwise these Bundesmarine tallies for Marineschule Mürwik with the long "sharp" s are very rare, most have already the small round s.

Best regards
Markus

Sorry Markus,Im a bit confused it is this one you posted here a km or bundesmarine?because If is bundesmarine has the same Sharp M than the one I bought it as you can see, I read the auction and it is 116 cm lengh

In mine both M are diferent style than Ricardo,s one

**CSForrester** · 07-09-2013, 01:45 PM

Fernando:

all pics i have posted are from Bundesmarine-tallies.

The difference to official distributed Kriegsmarine-tallies is:

-the letters have no small dots of gold or yellow around the letters on the obverse
-they are longer than 120cm
-if you you strip with fingertips over the letters - they are woven "on" the ribbon, while the Kriegsmarine-letters are more woven "into" the ribbon. You feel much more up and down on Bundesmarine-tallies.

If you hold your tally from ebay in hands, you can check it and you will also see, that the kind of weaving is different. 116cm is the standard lenght for official distributed KM-tallies, exact the length published in every MDV 260 (Marinedienstvorschrift 260 Anzugs- und Bekleidungsbestimmungen für die Kriegsmarine).

As i said, hard to explain in a foreign language and without any examples in to compare in hands. Wait until your Marineschule Mürwik arrived.

Markus

**L11-VELASCO** · 07-09-2013, 01:56 PM

Ok Markus,I will be back when tally is here

Thanks

**L11-VELASCO** · 07-09-2013, 03:24 PM

While the Mürwik arrives to me I want to post here this one UNTEROFFIZIERSCHULE for sure an early BUNDESMARINE than overpayed(30 euros)in a militaria shop in Berlin,then I didn,t know nothing about early bundesmarine with Gothic script and I bought it as km one and then I posted here and I discovered the real thing.....

but Im not very sad at all,now I consider this one an interesting cap tally and I can see that you stated Markus(small and round S in SCHULE)but I try see the dots gold around the letters with another KM(UNTERSEEBOOTSCHULE) I own too to compare both and I can not see the difference with the pics,may be I need find them and hold in hands to see the dots,etc

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

**R.R.** · 07-09-2013, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by CSForrester View Post

@Ricardo:

So - Muerwik is never an official distributed tally and - i guess it is longer than 120cm, an other prove for a non-official tally.

Hi Markus,

You're correct, my tally has about 140cm long.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

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