Kriegsmarine/Reichsmarine/Imperial/Bundesmarine Cap Tallies

[John R.]

And a nice plate.

[John R.]

Storage issues are up to the collector of course, but for me, I think the most thing is to get them out of the atmosphere where they can be damaged by pollution or direct sunlight. How you do that is up to you. My system of film canisters has not hurt any of my tallies and I doubt they ever will--we can worry too much about chemical leaching I think.

I have seen no damage to any tally over the last decade due to this system.

I guess if you had the canisters in high heat rooms, it might cause a problem Mine are in a sealed double box (vault and box) in an air conditioned space. No, you cannot see them on display, but some trade-offs are probably required for each collector.

What do you say Dani )).

John

[Marine HJ]

HI JOhn,

this is a beauty indeed. Thanks for showing. Lucky bugger having been discharged just 18 months before the Emden was sunk.
Well, the film canisters are definately a good way of storing. The major downside is, of course, that you have to take it out there to see the individual tally. I believe a picture frame with a back with rounded edges (where the tally doesn't experience any sharp folds) and out of the sunlight would be probably also a good option. At the end, there's glas which is filtering the UV light.

Ricardo, I have not a clue how many KM tallies were existant. For the Imperial Navy - Chris probably knows better - I have a figure of 912 somewhere in the back of my mind. The number of 912 would consider all possible colours (silver, gold and red) of course. So of SMS Charlotte, f.e., there would be 3 possible. And so forth.

I think with 400 KM tallies you are not too far off. Again, KM is not my main focus (...see my Forum name...) although still collecting certain ones.

Rgds

Daniel

[JustinG]

@ John: That tally would post some interesting dilemma if you chose to display it with it fully laid out. Really nice piece. The plate you show is fantastic. Quite exquisite.

@ Dani: Yes, that is a rare tally. Well, it is good to know.


The Oberkommando Der Kriegsmarine is a rare one and should be snatched up by anyone who values tallies.

I consider myself quite fortunate to have the examples listed:
ErproKdo =U-boote
OberKdo der Kreigs
and 1 U-flottille.

The Unterseebootsabwehrschule is another really rare one that I haven't seen too many with this one. The other really elusive one is the Schnellboot Tender Tsingtau. I haven't seen one even in a photograph. This would be another for me that would love to see an example of, even better: Someone allowing me the ability to acquire an example of this version.

For me the Unterseebootstender Mosel is the hardest one for me to achieve as it is the last known tender/begleitschiff that I don't have represented.

Regards,
JustinG

[JustinG]

Hi Daniel, Chris, Justin(C) and (G) and others,

How many KM and Imperial tallies are kneew? Now I have a relation with about 400 diferents KM tallies, but times to times I found some new names I don't have in my relation.

Best Regards,

Ricardo

I agree, probably around 400. Maybe many more:
Some units I have seen go up to 17 such as the Schiffstammabteilung so there are a good 17 if you were to have a tally for each of those units.
I have been looking for a forum that has a good focus on Mützenbander for a while to see what is actually out there. Many of the collections and collectors would not be like Dani, Markus, who are native German members to come to an english speaking forum and share their extensive knowledge and experience.

I think that even sometimes 400 might be a conservative estimate.

Regards,
JustinG

[Gensui]

Not being able to give a concrete number, I would agree with Dani for the number of Kaiserliche Marine tallies at approx. 900 different (like different colour variation) tallies.

Keep in mind, that there might be some number of "x"-tallies, which are not listed, known or recorded. Just think about the (unofficial/private organised and bought) canteen-tallies. IMO, there will be always an unknown number of tallies.

Once back home, I'll show you an example for a tally, which I never saw/heard before within the past 20 years.

BR,
Chris

[Marine HJ]

I agree, probably around 400. Maybe many more:
Some units I have seen go up to 17 such as the Schiffstammabteilung so there are a good 17 if you were to have a tally for each of those units.
I have been looking for a forum that has a good focus on Mützenbander for a while to see what is actually out there. Many of the collections and collectors would not be like Dani, Markus, who are native German members to come to an english speaking forum and share their extensive knowledge and experience.

I think that even sometimes 400 might be a conservative estimate.

Regards,
JustinG

Justin,
thanks for your kind reply. That's why I can't wait to get Bernd Wedeking's book about the tallies of the RM&KM in my hands. Then we have a benchmark, which probably goes up by 10% since unknown tallies will appear after publishing.
BTW, there were only 14 Schiffsstammabteilung tallies + the Schiffsstammabteilung Wesermuende. In my opinion the U-Abwehrschule is not that rare, but that's up to each individual collector how he feels what is rare and what not - we could probably discuss for days this question.

@ Chris: now I'm curious what you uncover upon arrival back at home ...

BTW, we don't have a militaria forum in German better then WAF, so probably that's the reason why we participate that much.

Dani

[R.R.]

Not being able to give a concrete number, I would agree with Dani for the number of Kaiserliche Marine tallies at approx. 900 different (like different colour variation) tallies.

Hi,


About 900 tallies is no doubts a great number. I don't know the woven process, but I think this involved a great number of persons to write and produces each one in a relativelly few numbers. May be no much more than 1.000 pieces in mostly cases.

Nice plate John posted here, I had saw some times ago a reservist tally like John's from S.M.S. Kaiser, no doubts a very impressive piece with about 3.5 meters.

I propose I post the KM tallies relation I have at a new thread and you're free to make corrections and aditions for future references.

Best regards,

Ricardo

[John R.]

Hi Chris,

My interest for the König class tallies is because I have a Markgraf model to make and I think to display it sometimes with a Markgraf tally.

Ricardo

Tally formerly in my collection attached. Now with Dani.

John

[John R.]

There was a member who posted a beautiful collection of German Warships that participated in the Battle of Jutland and this was displayed magnificently, it might be in the pinned thread for Imperial/RM/KM tallies.
JustinG

It was Jeff V.

John

[R.R.]

Tally formerly in my collection attached. Now with Dani.

John

Thank you for showing it John.

Regards,

Ricardo

[JustinG]

Congratulations Dani for your new acquisition.

Thanks John for the reminder of Jeff V being the owner of that Jutland collection.

I look forward to seeing that wonderful example Chris. Wonder what it could be?

Dani or to anyone here, if Bernd's book is published, I would appreciate a PM/Email letting me know about this. I would very much like to purchase this. Wonder if it will be available in the United States?

Thanks and Best Regards,
JustinG

[Marine HJ]

Hi Gents,

wow, we got carried away from the initial "SMS Gneisenau" post of Ricardo. Anyway, it's good fun to show a few tallies.
I've got approval by the German collector to post pictures of his cap. As mentioned before the cap was found as shown under a roof top together with other parts of a UBoat related uniform. You can see the mice (or moths) liked the tally as well and the cap itself took some beating as well. Needless to say the white top is missing and only the white-ish liner cap be seen. The cap is a purchased Geiger.

Rgds

Daniel

[Marine HJ]

Well, thinking about it, it's not necessarily moths who caused the damage - can be also dampness or other factors.
Considering the cap is regular sized, it is remarkable the lettering went ALL around the cap.

Dani

[Marine HJ]

Last picture. By the fairly uncommon name "Kieksee" it might be even possible to find out something about the man, provided he had done a career later.

Daniel