My new DAK helmets

[DougB]

Nick, some great research no doubt. But I still cannot agree that there is conclusive proof these were SS helmets exclusively. They were made during the decal era and after the Polezei Division was formally part of the Waffen SS. Reissue and refurbished SS helmets were given Pocher SS decals and is clearly a matter of record. If these were only SS helmets, why were they not identified as such.

If these were for use for all branches prior to their deployment to a tropical environment then it makes sense for them not to decal the helmets. That is the only conclusion I think that could be drawn, in particular showing the photographic evidence that IF these are those helmets, Heer and LW are using them as well.

I think it is a huge reach to call these depot unissued SS helmets.

[ROBB]

I think I need to see a vet bring back of this type of helmet , sadly black and white photos showing the disposal of tan helmets in a tropical country whilst interesting is no proof , like piles of white helmets on the Russian front doesn't mean they made white helmets . Show me the money ! Rob

[Paul Ba]

Can never proven this is WW2 period. Sorry

[kevinpre45]

Water Pattern Helmet covers

Hello
Those covers were "Proven" to exist! I bet the tan ones will be! Theres no proof they are not WW2!
Kevin

[NickG]

Great debate guys!
I have a contact in Germany who wishes to remain anonymous, but he is very close to a German Waffen SS vet, who happens to be his father in law.
His own father in law told him unequivocally that he received all his hot weather "SS Sahariana" kit, including such a tan helmet in Prague.
In other words these were not painted "in the field"...and the theatre was occupation duty...not a fox hole, not front line duty where expedient measures were taken,
based on circumstances, terrain etc...

Other headgear was stored there as well, so he probably also got a tan pith helmet and a tan SS cap from that depot, where head gear was certainly stored as proven by the resistance fighter images.

These are facts, not dealer hearsay word to mouth stories. The dealers were not there! The helmets were there, but later returned with other hot weather gear, once redeployed
to other fronts... Is it solid tangible proof, no! Is it a good clue, yes...

BTW here another image of those resistance fighters, as honor guards after the battle in their SS Sahariana kit + SS skit boots from that same depot. Credit: Vladimir,Štrupl.Archive

[bubble]

"For example, on this photo of Wehrmacht soldiers (Greece 1943-44) some helmets looks also very dark and some very light (yellow/brown?)"

That photo of the smiling partisan about to be executed was taken in Belfort, France, in late 1944. The man was actualy not executed, and was deported to a concentration camp where he died.
Regarding the helmet, posting photos of helmets with yellow paint on the exterior is completely irrelevant, as it is well recognised that large numbers of such overpainted helmets existed.

If we make the assumption that these helmets are German made late in the war, why are mdl 35 and 40 shells also included? Wouldnt it made sence for only 42 shells to be used? Or where earlier models of helmets stripped down and refurbished, as they often were: see all the ND late war repainted mdl 35's?

Regarding Greece being a hollyday theater, and no comouflaged helmets being required, I would consider this a wrong assement. I am not familiar with the Greek area, but am very familiar with the occupation of the French Riviera, that was also a "hollyday area". And any camouflaged wire helmets were used on the Riviera, paticularly wires. 50% of the helmets I have come accross from this holliday zone have some type of camo, and other local collectors have also found large numbers of camo helmets.

JL

I'm very sorry. I found this photo on the Greek web (Greek article focusing on nazi crimes in Greece) so I thought that picture really comes from Greece..

http://www.protothema.gr/culture/art...iki-thiriodia/

[Jean-Loup]

While vet recollections are important, they usualy contain many mistakes, and it would be naive to consider this indirect account from an anonymous source as anything more then interesting hearsay.
One canadian FSSF veteran I interviwed had an outstandind memorry.... He also told me about how he had been using an m16 in Italy in 1944.

[bubble]

It will be a slow trek to the answer.

I do not expect that i will in these books discover any new facts really,. but Better safe than sorry.

I can now say only one thing: Use of these old German yellow / brown helmets for CS civil defense or for export to Egypt is highly-highly unlikely - there don't exist (anywhere on the CZ Internet) any evidence for it..

[bubble]

While vet recollections are important, they usualy contain many mistakes, and it would be naive to consider this indirect account from an anonymous source as anything more then interesting hearsay.
One canadian FSSF veteran I interviwed had an outstandind memorry.... He also told me about how he had been using an m16 in Italy in 1944.

Yes, I agree .. as well as on the alleged export helmets to Egypt, which also never heard..

[NickG]

Yes, I agree .. as well as on the alleged export helmets to Egypt, which also never heard..

That was a lazy excuse.. unfounded rumors...It was war time inventories (in huge quantities) just like the left over brand new Saharianas and parkas...To me not a stretch at all...
The latter 2 clothing items in brand new unissued condition the Czechs eagerly adopted early post war for their own forces...but not the (war time) tan "Nazi" helmets,
only later to be overpainted in "civilian" black for civilian emergency/fire purposes...Post war refurbishing in tan makes no sense! (image obtained from Detektorweb via a Czech member)

[NickG]

SS Parkas used were camo as well as green...

[NickG]

Here's a whole group of Prague resistance fighters who ALL helped themselves to SS Saharianas + matching SS Sahariana trousers from that supply depot...
(but no tan helmets shown unfortunately ...probably made them look too German, as they are from neck to toe already completely outfitted in German gear...
but such helmets no doubt would have been stored there as well. Note K98 rifles + unissued ammo pouches which the resistance fighter on the right is carrying !
Even their low top combat boots are all the same (note speed laces) and new looking (not civilian), so all their (tropical) kit including the boots and weapons came from that same
SS supply warehouse in Prague no doubt...One has obtained a black Polizei/Fire stahlhelm from somewhere, others used Czech pattern helmets...(making them look non German)
Other than their headgear, they all look very uniformly dressed in tropical tan! Very much out of place in down town Prague, but it was a staging area for deployment gear!

[NickG]

Actually both these fighters in Prague wear SS Saharianas from that depot!
Helmet is a sharp edge M42 it appears (like many were found) but is it tan?

[Dennis S]

Hard to say photo appears over exposed.

[Monroe]

This is a really great thread. I've enjoyed reading it over many days as it has evolved. I was wondering if I could add anything constructive to it and just a few days ago, I remembered that I used to own one of these helmets.

I purchased it in the early to mid 1990's and took only three photos of it for my records. That was when cameras still used film.

It was before I was on the internet, so I got the helmet either from an ad in Shotgun news, Der Gauleiter, or at the Great Western Gunshow. I'm pretty sure it was from an ad rather than the Great Western because I was surprised that the inside of the dome was painted the same as the exterior and would have asked about it if I had it in hand at the show.

I liked the helmet because it shows wear. It wasn't mint/unissued.
I probably had it for a couple of years then decided to sell it after I purchased Goodapple's and Baer's books and no mention was made of helmets being finished in this color throughout in either book.

We must rely on the published information after all...

By that time I had also handled a lot more helmets and even though the helmet looked used, I started to think the brown staining and rust on it might be something like wood stain and not natural wear. The liner also had a darker coloring to it that i hadn't seen in any other helmets.

It was some time after I sold it that I heard the story of the postwar painted helmets and I thought I was lucky to have sold it. Now...I don't know anymore. I didn't pay a lot of money for the helmet and sold it for the same amount but I can't remember the exact amount.

It seems to me from this vantage point that there wasn't much incentive to fake a helmet to look combat used, when it could probably have sold at the time for the same amount in mint condition.

These photos are scanned from snapshots so I apologize for the quality. The color looks like I remember, at least on my monitor.

I look at the helmet now and notice the pins are not damaged but the overall look of the shell is that it isn't heavily abused. The wear does look artificial to me though. The chinstrap looks okay.

Form my notes:
The helmet is size 56/62. The underside of the leather is dated 1943. The shell is stamped ckl.

I don't know if this adds any valuable information or it's just another tangent but there it is.
Mike