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Wehrmacht HBT Stug wrap

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    #91
    Wade,

    I have been trying to keep this discussion light hearted and the post was not meant as anything close to detective work. If I had known you really weren't going to drift away, and that you would take my post so seriously.... I would have done it quite differently.

    The tag and the zig zag photos were nothing more than a flippant comparison, for amusement, as they are nothing like the ones on the wrap. I did not think anyone would take the tag or collar as a serious comparison, or a four pocket HBT tunic as a serious comparison with the wrap being discussed.

    I said HSC sarcastically since the wrap in question was called one of their products repeatedly without one shred of evidence. My sarcastic point was why not call this other HBT tunic one too? Same amount of evidence...none.

    QUOTE PANZER: "The only thing the wrap and this tunic have in common are that they are made of HBT....nothing more.....not construction, cut nothing."

    The boards Wade, the shoulder boards. "NICE BOARDS" was supposed to be the subtle hint at what the two uniforms had in common. The only reason I even posted the piece is because the shoulder boards are made identically...period.

    One of my specialties is finding old collections that haven't seen the light of day and finding the jewels in their midst that interest me. It is pure silliness to even hint that any one person has a clue as to how many collections there are out there worldwide. There are many thousands, I know you are not claiming to have seen them all or even all HBT wraps in existence?

    I agree....the odds are against there being an HBT wrap with zig zag behind the collar, because how many...10...20...30...40, don't have it? Unfortunately for your theory there are plenty of old veteran TR collectors with their old collections that have seen this wrap and would love to have it. To me that speaks volumes compared to someone who has only seen it in photos.

    Wade, is this wrap made from original HBT according to the front and back photos of the material posted or not?

    The same guy that found this wrap found all the tropical overseas caps with all the various soutaches including panzer, in bundles, that every dealer now sells as original. They were called fake for quite a while too.

    Not one person can produce one photo of another fake wrap with all these anomalies? The evidence that there is an original with all these features is right in front of you, I guess an entire wrap is not a scerrick of evidence?

    I've said it in many other posts...I don't care if I'm wrong, but I'm not going to roll over because of forum pressure when so many others who have seen it agree it is original. Perhaps I can borrow the wrap in question and bring it to the SOS this year? HSC sets up at the SOS too, so I can take it right to them and ask if they made it.

    Richard P

    Comment


      #92
      hello,

      i respectfuly suggest to try to focus only on the item itself.

      Richard,
      is it possible to have close pics of sleeve's end construction,
      with the hidden butoning system ?

      derka

      Comment


        #93
        Derka,

        I requested photos and these are what i received. Hopefully they will have the details you wish to see.

        Richard P
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          #94
          2.
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            #95
            3. With Flash
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              #96
              4.
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                #97
                5.
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                  #98
                  6.
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                    #99
                    7.
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                      8.
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                        9.
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                          10. This one was supposed to be first.
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                            Originally posted by Richard P View Post
                            Wade,

                            I have been trying to keep this discussion light hearted and the post was not meant as anything close to detective work. If I had known you really weren't going to drift away, and that you would take my post so seriously.... I would have done it quite differently.

                            The tag and the zig zag photos were nothing more than a flippant comparison, for amusement, as they are nothing like the ones on the wrap. I did not think anyone would take the tag or collar as a serious comparison, or a four pocket HBT tunic as a serious comparison with the wrap being discussed.

                            I said HSC sarcastically since the wrap in question was called one of their products repeatedly without one shred of evidence. My sarcastic point was why not call this other HBT tunic one too? Same amount of evidence...none.

                            QUOTE PANZER: "The only thing the wrap and this tunic have in common are that they are made of HBT....nothing more.....not construction, cut nothing."

                            The boards Wade, the shoulder boards. "NICE BOARDS" was supposed to be the subtle hint at what the two uniforms had in common. The only reason I even posted the piece is because the shoulder boards are made identically...period.

                            One of my specialties is finding old collections that haven't seen the light of day and finding the jewels in their midst that interest me. It is pure silliness to even hint that any one person has a clue as to how many collections there are out there worldwide. There are many thousands, I know you are not claiming to have seen them all or even all HBT wraps in existence?

                            I agree....the odds are against there being an HBT wrap with zig zag behind the collar, because how many...10...20...30...40, don't have it? Unfortunately for your theory there are plenty of old veteran TR collectors with their old collections that have seen this wrap and would love to have it. To me that speaks volumes compared to someone who has only seen it in photos.

                            Wade, is this wrap made from original HBT according to the front and back photos of the material posted or not?

                            The same guy that found this wrap found all the tropical overseas caps with all the various soutaches including panzer, in bundles, that every dealer now sells as original. They were called fake for quite a while too.

                            Not one person can produce one photo of another fake wrap with all these anomalies? The evidence that there is an original with all these features is right in front of you, I guess an entire wrap is not a scerrick of evidence?

                            I've said it in many other posts...I don't care if I'm wrong, but I'm not going to roll over because of forum pressure when so many others who have seen it agree it is original. Perhaps I can borrow the wrap in question and bring it to the SOS this year? HSC sets up at the SOS too, so I can take it right to them and ask if they made it.

                            Richard P
                            some of us recall the wary looks when bundles of W-SS camo winter mittens were discovered about 1970 or so. right as rain they ALSO turned out to be...

                            maybe the moderator shd. invite then pin a thread on VARIATIONS of different kinds; 'course the numbers wd. be gargantuan!

                            face it gentlemen: a great many so-called "standards" have at least minor differences from one to the other, partly 'coz of the availability (or not) of materials. consider just buttons; tailors often used what was at hand: pressed paper, metal, glass. uniforms for replacement troops for the boys lost in ever-larger numbers had to be got out quick. Variations? hell, yes

                            looking for absolutes in a political system fast breaking apart - and where "to zig-zag or not?" was very, very far down on the germans' list of priorities is, I respectfully submit, a fools' paradise.

                            Comment


                              looking for absolutes in a political system fast breaking apart - and where "to zig-zag or not?" was very, very far down on the germans' list of priorities is, I respectfully submit, a fools' paradise.[/quote]

                              Well said! There were hundreds of makers in different locations and each had their own way of tailoring and sewing in their shop from decades of being in business before the war.

                              Comment


                                1. That fold in the cuff as seen in photo 102 looks to have been there for a LONG time!

                                2. If this is a fake, it can not be a one or two only made deal....as doing this degree of intricate and elaborate work to simulate a production garmet like this would be very expensive ....so where are the other fakes just like this one?

                                3. The main arguments made against this one so far have been: "It is different in this or that detail from the others that I have seen". This is always used when anything different is posted. I agree that what we know to be real must be one "data" point to consider when evaluating an item, however simply being "different" in and of itself does not ever equal being fake (unless we are talking about offical coinage).

                                4. Can anyone post any known fake hbt fabric that matches the fabric used in this wrap (front and back sides)?

                                Comment

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