Wehrmacht HBT Stug wrap

[inimicus]

looking for absolutes in a political system fast breaking apart - and where "to zig-zag or not?" was very, very far down on the germans' list of priorities is, I respectfully submit, a fools' paradise.

Well said! There were hundreds of makers in different locations and each had their own way of tailoring and sewing in their shop from decades of being in business before the war.[/QUOTE]

[inimicus]

Well said! There were hundreds of makers in different locations and each had their own way of tailoring and sewing in their shop from decades of being in business before the war.

[/QUOTE]
thanks nutmeg -

it's just that with so many dollars, euros, franks etc. at stake, anxious collectors can lose sight of a key fact: as time wore on, the germans' famous obsession with regulations got trumped by their equally famous practical nature!

there's the quandary.

anyway great thread; thanks to all no matter the opinions voiced...

[Soldat de Fer]

Hello
Good fakes are out there , to ask people to show proof ? well , do have a look at the thread posted by "Oberst Von Luck" regarding a typical faked HBT tunic and do take a good look at the material .
This is not a matter of how many tunic , or this or that you own , or don't , but a matter of knowing the fake HBT from the real HBT , I own 7 original HBT tunic and pants and all have the same caracteristics regarding the HBT weave and there are the same for wraps as well , they were not 2 different way to make HBT !!!!, just one , fake do not and I am pretty happy they still did not get it right , thus far .
Regards
P-y

[derka]

hello,

thanks for sleeve's pics, Richard.
just for comparizon, a first pattern :





derka

[Richard P]

Derka,

Thanks for the comparison photos. The sewing on this cuff isn't near as wide as what you depict, but it sure has a nice angle to it. I'm going to look at some HBT wraps this weekend. I usually just pass them by, but I guess I'd better pay more attention now.

Isn't the purpose of the zig zag stitching to secure the bias material between the top and bottom layer that forms the collar? Don't most HBT wraps not have bias material...thus no zig zag?

The wrap in question not only has the bottom layer made of 5 sewn together pieces of HBT, but it has bais material...thus perhaps the zig zag sewing on it.

Just a thought...

Richard

[Richard P]

Soldat de Fer,

It has been established by several old veteran collectors that the piece in question is made of real HBT by those having seen it in person.

I looked at the post by von Luck for the third time...that HBT isn't even close to this tunics HBT. Just look at the photos in this thread front and back. There isn't one shred of proof in that post that this piece is bad.

I don't own even one piece of HBT, don't care for it...but that doesn't change the fact that this tunic is made from real HBT either during WWII or later. Thats the only question besides...what is it?

We all get it that there is a ton of fake HBT out there.

Richard P

[Luca Ongaro]

There were hundreds of makers in different locations and each had their own way of tailoring and sewing in their shop from decades of being in business before the war.

Agree with you, again if the problem on this wrap is the zig-zag under the collar, I have seen two originals in this style.
Mr Wade asked for a 100% original one, see post n. 72, that uniform was found in a factory of Prato (Italy) among rags for few dollars and is authentic as rain, free to trust or not.
If this mint tunic is a fake seem is more rare than the originals, I am waiting to see another fake like this one or another type firmed HSC .
Richard, personally I have no any problem with this tunic.
Luca

[Richard P]

Luca,

Funny...this wrap came out of a rag mill in the 60's. I suspect that was the fate of many things that would be worth a small fortune today.

Richard P.

[inimicus]

from an old clothes warehouse in the '80s - when people thought vintage rags were coo - l I bt. a mint dachau-made W-SS EM tunic for a Very Small price even for those days ;-) (yes it had the sl-eagle only).

[Luca Ongaro]

a mint dachau-made W-SS EM tunic (yes it had the sl-eagle only).

As must be if you are looking for a mint late SS tunic, hope is still in your collection.
Luca

[Richard P]

Howdy...

I was invited over by a local collector to view a couple of HBT stug wraps firsthand. Since I have never really examined any others besides the one that is the subject of this thread...I jumped at the chance. After the examine I asked if I might borrow this one.

I apologize for the bad photos, I tried for natural light but the sun was going down. I don't know if you can make a judgment call with these photos. My main concern was to photograph it so you can see where the front and back of the HBT come together inside the wrap. Those are the last two photos. Lets see if your call was the same as mine. Everyone with an opinion please voice it. No questions about it too stupid to ask...all cheerfully answered.

1. Overall exterior shot.

[Richard P]

2. Shoulder area, collar ( no zig zag on reverse, no bias material either) shoulder board loop and button.

[Richard P]

3. Close up of the exterior HBT weave.

[Richard P]

4. Shot one of where the exterior is folded back upon itself showing the front and back of the weave together.

[Richard P]

5. Shot two of where the exterior is folded back upon itself showing the front and back of the weave together.