HJ Knife solid red diamonds

[DaveR]

how many different sizes of HJ insignia were used in the grips ?

[Mac 66]

how many different sizes of HJ insignia were used in the grips ?

Hi Dave,


i reckon there are 3 different sizes of hj knife daimonds:

Early period smallest daimond: 20mmx13mm
Transitional period daimond: 23mmx13mm
Late period largest daimond: 25mmx14mm



Regards Mac 66.

[Victorman]

That is correct: both diamonds shown here are very similar.

They even could be identical because the diamond in the knife is a replacement without any doubt!

Best regards,

Victorman

[Mac 66]

That is correct: both diamonds shown here are very similar.

They even could be identical because the diamond in the knife is a replacement without any doubt!

Best regards,

Victorman

http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31...04/index8.html

[BobI]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Are all red diamonds real, NO! Are they all fake, NO! I did not read all on the HJ forum although the few post I did read I can only agree on. I might be one of the "old-timers" now who has bought a lot more from veterans and families then most people have seen.
As was mentioned on the HJ forum, you need to look at materials, methods and more. This thread has arguments similar to another multiple forum member who is full of disinformation.
I am a large advocate of newer people like Tom Durante and Dietrich who have written well studied scientific approaches to collecting. Are both perfect, or am I, No way! Are red diamonds real, some for sure!
Best Wishes,
Bob
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[Victorman]

Bob,

If you have done some real research on HJ knifes, then please come up with some real data from that research!

WHICH MAKERS DURING WHICH PERIOD HAVE BEEN USING THE FULL RED DIAMONDS?

How can any serious collector/researcher support the theory and the methods followed in this topic: showing some messed up and/or low quality knifes with full red diamonds from all different makers, from all different periods

THIS WILL NEVER CONVINCE ANY LOGIC THINKING COLLECTOR !

Best regards,

Herman

[Mac 66]

Quote By Victorman: 11.07.12


Post # 167: Anyway I consider this topic as a "mission accomplished":

And he is still here ranting on & on......


He forgets, "His Glass Is Only Half Full"


@ Herman,

We are protecting new collectors here by discussing the subject,

They can read this thread & make up there own minds to accept solid red/opaque enamel daimonds or not, we are NOT forcing anybody to buy them,

Read the thread on the hj Research forum, you will read some interesting facts about opaque red enamel & yourself


http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f31...04/index8.html

[Ralph P]

This thread has reached its shelf life. It is now closed.

[Ralph P]

Hello all - I have re-opened this thread. Further, this is a international collecting forum for all of us, however remember this is not a forum for attacking each other. Please remember continued personal attacks could result in your suspension from this forum.

1) While we encourage lively discussion, we will not tolerate personal attacks, disrespectful comments, or disingenuous remarks toward any person (including their contributions and posts on the forums) or any organization. Any person disparaging another forum member or organization in this regard, or violating forum rules and/or promoting any views that are not in harmony with the Code of Conduct, may have their comments either edited or removed without notice. Any future incident thereafter may result in that member being permanently removed from the forum.

[mauser22]

Solid Red Diamonds

Thanks for reopening this thread this discussion has been going on for about a year. Here and on two other forums. It is very educational and entertaining

[Mac 66]

Hi Guys,

Great thread this on hj knifes with solid red/opaque daimonds,

Thanks to forums moderator Ralph P this thread has been cleaned up a good bit to get rid of rubbish unhelpful posts

Now what hj knife makers/RZMs do we have so far which used the solid red/opaque enamel daimonds:

2 x RZM M7/36 E&F Hörster, Solingen
1 x Daul Marked RZM M7/66 Carl Eickhorn, Solingen
1 x RZM M7/12 Carl Robert Kaldenbach Solingen
1 x Unmarked Late Example
1 x M7/29 Klittermann & Moog GmbH, Solingen-Haan
1 x RZM M7/72 Karl Rob Kaldenbach, Solingen-Grafrath with plastic scabbard hanger.


If any collectors out there own a hj knife with solid red/opaque daimond insignia please post photos of your knife on here & then we can see how many different makers used solid red daimonds on there hj knifes during the period.



Thanks Mac 66.

[Victorman]

Mac,

I like your new approach of listing the makers that you find with a full red diamond a lot!

Now, let me remind you that, if you want to draw conclusions about a characteristic of a specific maker during a specific period in time, you will need multiple identical knifes: at least 3: same maker, same period and same year (if marked on the blade)


I'll give you just one simple example:

- The late scabbard with plastic hanger was surely used on late knifes by RZM M7/72 (Carl Rob Kaldenbach ): I have seen over 10 knifes by this maker with the plastic hanger, so it is 100% confirmed!

- Now I have also seen that hanger on other knifes, but never the confirmation by 2 other, identical knifes: so I cannot conclude that they are original to the knife: they could (easily in the case of a scabbard) be switched!

- I also have seen that plastic hanger on 2 HJ knifes by RZM/M13 (Arthur Shüttelhöfer), but I do not conclude (yet) that they are original to the knifes. Why not? 2 examples is simply not enough + those knifes are so common that multiple switches are very possible!


It also must be repeated that, for the HJ knifes with full red diamond shown so far in this topic, the chance is close to un existing that the full red diamonds are original to the knife: all of them are evident replacements.

I will not repeat the reasons why I draw that conclusion.


That said, I wish you good luck with your research!

And I mean that, even if I am extremely skeptical and personally gave up on researching the feature of the full red diamond... you never know!

But the proof needs to be unquestionable of course!

Best regards,

Herman

[Mac 66]

[QUOTE=Victorman;5696643]Mac,

"I like your new approach of listing the makers that you find with a full red diamond a lot!

Now, let me remind you that, if you want to draw conclusions about a characteristic of a specific maker during a specific period in time, you will need multiple identical knifes: at least 3: same maker, same period and same year (if marked on the blade)"


Victorman,

We do Not want to draw conclusions about characteristics of specific makers of hj knifes but only to see IF we can find how many makers of hj knifes with the good quality solid red/opaque enamel daimonds excepted to be genuine are out there amongst collectors/dealers to build up a referance over a long period of time because this isnt going to an easy task by any means.


Quote Victorman

"It also must be repeated that, for the HJ knifes with full red diamond shown so far in this topic, the chance is close to un existing that the full red diamonds are original to the knife: all of them are evident replacements.

I will not repeat the reasons why I draw that conclusion."

Victorman,

That Statement is utter rubbish!!, you cannot make such a statement with NO hard evidence which you do not have without a very close hands on examination prefferably with a loupe or at best an X ray, you have had your say over & over again on this thread which is very tiring, Please if you have nothing NEW to post Stay Away so we can get on here to build up a good learning thread that will help everybody in the end understand this subject, Any Positive information is greatly appreciated



Regards Mac 66.

[colt45s]

still like pearls the best.... when the war started , did they stil make them?

[Victorman]

Mac,

Are you familiar with statistics? I am afraid not...

You don't own any reference books, do you?

What do you think Tom Wittmann, Ralf Siegert and all the others do when they write those reference books?

Do you think that they base their conclusions on authenticity of pieces and the descriptions of characteristics of certain makers on just one (beat up) dagger of that maker?

It does not work that way!

No, you need solid proof if you want to be taken serious with your "full red dagger diamond" theory!

Even if others will proof that solid red badges existed during the 3R period, who says that those were made before 1942?


No, you have serious work to do here and should stop the playing if you want to be respected one day!

Today your only supporters are the ones who have a bad knife - I like to call them the "solid red duped" club - and you also have some who sold -or who want to sell- the pieces... that's obvious!

But the complete collecting community want solid proof of any new theory!


You ask the help here of everyone on this forum with postings of pieces, so at least you should tell them how your (serious) research will proceed and how will you draw your conclusions!

I am just trying to help you here, so keep yourself under control this time, please!



Best regards,

Herman