HJ Knife solid red diamonds

[Mac 66]

I try to follow you, Mac, but... it is getting touch...

More than 50% of the original diamonds in the HJ knifes were lost after the war... but now there are again enough originals to restore even crappy knifes... like most of the ones posted in this topic...

How do you explain that?

Please try at least to stay polite, even if it becomes difficult to defend your "full red" case...

Best regards,

Victorman

How do you know more than 50% of hj knifes lost there daimonds after the war ? please explain, did you follow around every hj knife that was produced ?

i find your case very poor & your question as to where all the daimonds came from to repair broken hj knifes with missing daimonds is anybodys guess but if they are using genuine daimonds they must have came from Germany during the period imo.


Please Do Not Call The HJ KNIFES in this thread Crappy, Thats pure ignorance & disrespectful to the owners of the knifes including me,


Who Do You Think You Are ?

[Victorman]

I do a lot of research on HJ's, Mac, I keep statistics, from every show I attend to, for many, many years now...

That is how I manage to draw conclusions on features that are typical for certain producers. For instance, the late Hörsters, like shown here, they have unique rivets with very small heads, unlike any other maker! Yours has them to! Many collectors still find them suspicious... but they are 100% OK. Unlike the diamond on your Hörster... it is really not original to the knife... sorry to bring that bad news.

About the 50%:
You would be surprised how many HJ knifes -even minty ones- are surfacing with a missing or damaged diamond... I count them on every show!

On top of that, I add the ones which have an replacement diamond -I do x-ray the knifes ! Lots of original (dagger diamond) replacements! But also many diamonds which were originaly HJ-pins are mounted into quality HJ-knifes!

Now even if the % of lost, original diamonds was much less than the over 50% I observed so far, than there would still be not enough original diamonds (from daggers!) to repair the low end HJ-knifes.
That is why fakes and ex-badges (possibly also full reds...) are used on the crappy HJ's.

Now, is that so difficult to follow and understand?


That was all for today, from my side anyway...

Best regards,

Herman

[Mac 66]

You do not bring me bad news as i now my knife is all good,

Maybe one day you,ll get some real evidence that the solid reds are fake ?

Your Stats from the shows mean nothing to me only your words

Over & Out, i,m sick to the teeth arguing with you,



Quote the saying by DD Harris,

"He who argues with a fool becomes one himself"

[DaveR]

i have done some repair and restoration on many different kinds of things. looking at the HJ Mac posted last, its my opinion that the diamond is nothing but original to the dagger. makers at the time did not make every thing in house. i think its very possable the diamond makers were trying different methods, or just goofed up on a batch on occasion. i cant say for sure not having been there in the factories. but id say some one would have to go a long way to convince me or any one else that the diamond in Mac's hj is not original to the knife. it just fits to well to me a replacement.

[Raymond]

Mac, nice looking knife. From what I see I think it's original and unplayed with.

[Mac 66]

Thanks Dave & Raymond for you positive opinions

I would also appreciate opinions from the long time dagger & knife collectors please if that would be possible as i know for a fact some of you have bought hj knifes with solid red/opaque daimonds straight from the hands of vets as this hj knife was by DD Harris.



Regards Mac 66.

[Victorman]

Mac,

What you are trying to tell the collector community is the following:

At the Hörster factory, now and then a HJ knife assembler said to himself: "This HJ-knife is gonna have a hard time during its lifetime, so I will put in a full red diamond on this one !"

This way, the assembler was predicting that the knife was going to end up as a beater or low end knife for collecting purposes...

Now, the same was happening at many other Solingen blade factories: now end then a full red diamond was mounted, predicting that this particular knife would be abused or damaged...

And this way of producing started as soon as 1936, you seem to believe?

This is just rediculous, Mac!


Or maybe, for you, it does not matter if the diamond is original to the HJ-knife?

If there is a chance that the diamond is a replacement -coming from a period badge- do you consider the HJ-knife to be 100% authentic?

You seem to accept that -due to the shortage of original knife diamonds- badges are used to upgrade crappy knifes?

In that case we have a completely different story!

And I propose to stop this discussion immediately.

Best regards,

Herman

[Darrell]

Mac. Time to try the IGNORE function. It works great and this guy has now been added to my growing list.

[Mac 66]

Hi Guys,

My hj knife with solid red/opaque daimond insignia arrived today & i,m very pleased with the overall condition, i cannot see any tampering damage whatsoever to the rivets or griplates not even a hairline crack on the griplates, daimond insignia has the required movement, i.e springy up & down with side to side movement with that click sound when tapped with my finger just like some of my other hj knifes daimond insignia, the rest of the knife has some aged patina with some greying on the blade that i will gently clean way to preserve the blade from any further decay, the cloth on scabbard runners are still bright white which i was very happy to see, all i can say now is that i believe 100% solid red enamel hj daimond insignia was definetly used during the TR production period but not on the same scale as we see the commonly used clear pimpled hj daimonds therefore imo the solid red/opaque enamel hj daimond is a scarcer type to find on hj knifes.

There will be a book out next year summertime by Jo Rivett that explains everything we want to know about TR badges & pins covering in great detail about the solid red/opaque hj daimonds ect that will answer questions in a more positive light with good solid evidence.

http://s276159374.e-shop.info/shop/p...idG&shop_param


This is all i have to say on this subject for now.




Regards Mac 66.

[Victorman]

Are we still talking about that lower quality Hörster?

Again, I have to protect the newer and unexperienced collectors, by adding the following observations:

- What you have is not -as you describe -a rare variant of the HJ-knife, but actually a common late Hörster RZM piece.

- The knife and scabbard are original but in relatively poor condition because they show a lot of rust and wear. Except for the diamond which is clearly a replacement.

- The rust spots look quite fresh, so it could be that someone tried to age the complete knife after replacing the diamond. We see that process quite often applied on knifes which are already of lower quality: some extra rust spots do no harm anymore and make the piece look more authentic!

Best regards,

Herman

[Mac 66]

Herman,

My hj knife is out of the woodwork & was acquired by DD Harris from the son of a US vet as i said in my earlier post which has never been touched & most likely was stored in a garage or a similar place.

i am very happy with the knife with its solid red daimond so for me this is all i can say on the subject, you can say whatever you like but that is only your sole opinion & its up to collectors to decide if they think there genuine or not with all the info provided by the helpful members here & on the other forums.


For me i,m finished with this subject is closed

Mac 66.

[Mac 66]

Subject Open Again With New Info

quote by RussellM on hj research forum :

It does not make sense for a faker to manufacture a diamond with all the correct attributes including the correct size, thickness, and length of pins, and then do something completely different by leaving out the scaled base of the diamond & change the colour of the enamel from clear red to solid red! I also think that the fake solids we see today were replicated after seeing original solid examples of the type we are discussing.

Also:
I like it as well Mac. There are fakes of these solid red's, but I believe you will find that the diamond in that knife, when looked at through a loupe, will show some tiny, dark dotted specs, a little like spots of pepper in the red sections. That's the main thing I look for in a solid red diamond of the same colour as yours.
I believe the fake solids are easy to spot, but genuine ones I've seen all have this characteristic.



Common Sense & Knowledge is The Key!!!

People Shout Out its Fake Well Prove It!!!



Mac 66.

[Victorman]

Another try, but wrong again, Mac!

Talk to someone who does emaille work (which are the HJ diamonds): a dotted diamond is a more advanced technique and is therefore more expensive to produce.

The early fakers could not spend much money on their copies, because original HJ's itself were not too expensive in the early years of collecting.

Still today, the cheapest copies have a full red diamond because it costs less to produce those.

I had explained this already -maybe not on this forum?-

Some people seem to have a very short memory when it comes to this topic: they keep on repeating the same arguments over and over again, presenting them as being new... and hoping noone will react this time... it is never ending story...

Hijacking other topics with "the full red story" is another common practice to get attention for this lost case...

The only objective appears to be: to convince new collectors, so these will buy a bad piece and probably leave the hobby immediately after they found out what they really bought!

Please, for the future of this great hobby: STOP THESE PRACTICES NOW!

Best regards,

Herman

[Mac 66]

[Quote by Victorman:The only objective appears to be: to convince new collectors, so these will buy a bad piece and probably leave the hobby immediately after they found out what they really bought!

Please, for the future of this great hobby: STOP THESE PRACTICES NOW!]


We are having a discussion here as this is what the WAF is for remember ?

We are most certainly NOT trying to convince new collectors to buy a bad peice as they can make up there own minds with all the info provided now & in the future when a new book comes out by Jo Rivett which goes into great detail as never has been before with many detailed images to explain the factory production process of the solid red enamel daimonds ect,

For the future of this hobby we will NOT STOP this discussion but will bring some solid evidence to light which you have NOT up till now.

There are Fake solid reds out there but also Genuine solid reds as there is FAKE translucent scaled daimonds & Genuine ones,

Herman you prove it to everyone here that solid reds are FAKE then we might take some notice of your opinion, until then....

Also try answering some of the questions i have asked you in the previous posts as all you seem to do is TWIST my words around to suit your own benefit!!

Regards Mac 66.

[Adrian Stevenson]

I think this is an interesting discussion. Yes, some solid diamonds are bad, no news there.

I am very familiar with Jo's work. He certainly knows what he is talking about when it comes to enamel insignia. I look forwards to his finings.

Cheers, Ade.